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Old 08-16-2012, 09:12 AM   #24946
Aurelius
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Racer Dale Serge set a blistering lap time of 4 min, 52 seconds at my favorite local trail yesterday -- only 2 seconds slower than pro racer David Wood's long standing record. Makes me a bit queasy just watching it:

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Old 08-16-2012, 11:41 AM   #24947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Read the 'drivetrain efficiency' section

Interesting stuff

(for us geeks)

M

I'd be curious to see similar studies on mountain bikes to see if the lubrication thing is as unimportant. Also wonder about the less extreme differences in chainring size.


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Old 08-16-2012, 12:17 PM   #24948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougfromindy View Post
I have a 48 euro foot , wide in width.
I am having some trouble finding an SPD shimano shoe with a wider width and a wider toe box. Its for a road bike but just after something comfy , could be a MTB shoe as well, decent price, don't need anything high end at all.
Can any of you nerds recommend something? Thanks
Same situation here and I love the fit of my Lake MX165 Xwide shoes in size 48. I use these for road, mtb, and winter time spin classes. Looks like most retailers are out of stock in our size, so ebay might by your best bet.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #24949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djb_rh View Post
I'd be curious to see similar studies on mountain bikes to see if the lubrication thing is as unimportant. Also wonder about the less extreme differences in chainring size.


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I don't think drivetrain efficiency is nearly the factor in mountainbiking that it is i roadbiking. there's far more rolling resistance, you're usually pedaling at lower speeds, and the only time you're going fast is downhill.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:36 PM   #24950
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I don't think drivetrain efficiency is nearly the factor in mountainbiking that it is i roadbiking. there's far more rolling resistance, you're usually pedaling at lower speeds, and the only time you're going fast is downhill.
I think you're right. Road biking involves traveling long distances at relatively high speeds, and the bikes themselves are made so super-efficient nowadays that the tiniest factor like a dirty chain can make a measurable difference in performance. Not so with mountain bikes, where variables like terrain, tire pressure, tread pattern, suspension, etc., make a far greater difference than a bit of sand on the chain will.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:36 PM   #24951
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I think you're right. Road biking involves traveling long distances at relatively high speeds, and the bikes themselves are made so super-efficient nowadays that the tiniest factor like a dirty chain can make a measurable difference in performance. Not so with mountain bikes, where variables like terrain, tire pressure, tread pattern, suspension, etc., make a far greater difference than a bit of sand on the chain will.
"A bit of sand"? How about repeated immersion in water and mud?

Part of why drivetrain loss was so small was attributed to running 52 front sprockets, too. My 1x10 bike has a 30T front. That's a pretty big difference.

And while by percentage of overall bike efficiency the drivetrain might not be as significant as in road biking, the simple fact is that power loss is power loss, and if the drivetrain is TWICE as inefficient as a road bike, that could be VERY significant in 100 mile XC races, for example.

The reason I ask is to understand if just maybe it's worth it to stop and clean and lube the chain in that kind of environment, or if perhaps the gain isn't offset by the time loss of doing the maintenance. It only takes 60 seconds and most, and if you're talking about doing it after 40 miles of a race at an aid station right before a 10 mile long nearly 3,000 foot climb (which is something that happens at Leadville, for example), it might just be worth it.

Again, I don't understand why OTHER inefficiencies of MTB have ANYTHING to do with this. I mean if THAT mattered, then I'd argue that the fact that you go "so fast" on a road bike means your drivetrain efficiencies aren't a big deal because aero drag is so much larger in comparison to your road bike. But that makes just as little sense.


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Old 08-17-2012, 10:44 AM   #24952
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Originally Posted by djb_rh View Post
"A bit of sand"? How about repeated immersion in water and mud?

Part of why drivetrain loss was so small was attributed to running 52 front sprockets, too. My 1x10 bike has a 30T front. That's a pretty big difference.

And while by percentage of overall bike efficiency the drivetrain might not be as significant as in road biking, the simple fact is that power loss is power loss, and if the drivetrain is TWICE as inefficient as a road bike, that could be VERY significant in 100 mile XC races, for example.
If we're talking about racing 100 miles on a mountain bike, then I would certainly spend the time to make certain the bike is operating as efficiently as possible. That hasn't the vaguest resemblance to the kind of trail riding I and most people do, however, where factors such as tire choice, tire pressure, and suspension settings yield far more tangible results than a perfectly clean and lubed chain.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:49 PM   #24953
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3ish hours on the Full Tilt Boogie today with some buddies. Did a few loops around The Plains, VA and up and over Bull Run Mtn. Mostly dirt roads.

I gotta tell ya. Tubulars sure do ride nice. Even when they're pumped up to 40-ish psi!

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Old 08-17-2012, 05:52 PM   #24954
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after taking jon for a spin yesterday i just commuted 9 miles rountrip to work

i can't wait for things to cool off ... it's been a brutal summer here
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:47 PM   #24955
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Next week I will hit 1000 miles on the new Marin since April. Not bad since i didnt ride it at all in july since i was on summer vacation.

It's been a beautiful summer, and a thousand miles more than I rode last year.

I plan to set it up with studded tires and continue through winter. Lots of folks manage it here so I figure, why not me too? At this rate I will have another 700 miles by christmas.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:50 PM   #24956
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General question.

I want to get some clip in pedals which also work with regular shoes. Am I right that any pedal labelled as "spd" is what I am looking for?
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:16 AM   #24957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandThumper View Post
General question.

I want to get some clip in pedals which also work with regular shoes. Am I right that any pedal labelled as "spd" is what I am looking for?
I have shimano m520 pedals amd their cleats on two different pairs of shoes. M520are gemerally the least expensive yet still last you mamy years. I have a pair od specialized sjoes and a pair of addidas. Spd is the generoc for receeded cleat. I use those shoes everyday at work.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:38 AM   #24958
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I've got a set of Nokian studded tires for my Mtn Bike, and the traction on ice is amazing! I hope we have some real winter this year, so I can use them. Last winter was too warm.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:03 AM   #24959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandThumper View Post
General question.

I want to get some clip in pedals which also work with regular shoes. Am I right that any pedal labelled as "spd" is what I am looking for?
Yes. For my urban thrasher bike, I work with these & these. I like the pearl izumi's - I can wear them all day long with no ill effect. But they do run small. I'm a euro size 43, and I bought a 44. They were snug until I stretched them out.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:04 AM   #24960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandThumper View Post
General question.

I want to get some clipLESS pedals which also work with regular shoes. Am I right that any pedal labelled as "spd" is what I am looking for?
fixt

Anything labeled 'spd compatible' will work with mtn shoes. Chosing a pedal is like 'which oil should I use?' discussions. I've had ATACs, Speedplays, and now SPDs. They all work.

One bit of advice: if you are going SPD stick with the Shimano pedals. The nicer the better. IOW XT pedals are going to last longer and work better than 520s. XTR will do better than that... etc

HTH

M
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