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Old 01-02-2013, 08:14 AM   #26776
Weirdo
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I can already unclip instantly without having to think about it. Flats would just give me a little more peace of mind, so I can concentrate on the task at hand.



That's cheating.
I went to flats years ago for any real technical riding. I also can get out of a set of clips without thinking of it instantly, but for bridges and stunts flats are the way to go. You may lose something for climbing, but not enough to make it worth it for me. If your ten feet up on a teeter-totter and it goes wrong, you want to be able to abandon ship in a hurry.

What Gummee said about climbing steeps is bang on, you got to get on the rivet and tuck your elbows in to your ribs then punch it. Sounds obvious, but the faster you can go the easier it is, having enough momentum to roll over whatever is going to hang you up is key, then keeping the power going down come hell or high water. Being fit is a big player in being proficient in the technical stuff. Having consistent and ample power is huge.

There are climbs in Whistler that I've tried to make for decades (literally) that I've come within three pedal strokes to making, but never have. Usually after burning out or spazing I’d make a noise like Chewbacca and want to throw my bike into the woods.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:20 AM   #26777
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:23 AM   #26778
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Gotta replace my clipless pedals with a set of flats ....
I use these on my hybrid...



They or similar would rock on a mtn bike. can wear a walking shoe, or most anything. the pins hold your foot almost as securely as a SPD cleat for anything other than pulling straight up (eg the 'scrape your shoe' motion at the bottom of the stroke works just fine)
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:38 AM   #26779
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I can already unclip instantly without having to think about it. Flats would just give me a little more peace of mind, so I can concentrate on the task at hand.
I'm confused. You're going to go to flats so you can work on one aspect of a ride that lasts how long?

Quote:
That's cheating.
No such thing. Sometimes it IS faster/easier to get off and carry the bike. You'll note I said 'carry' and not 'push.' You push the bike and its beaten you. Carry it and you're still showing it who's boss.

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:41 AM   #26780
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
You'll note I said 'carry' and not 'push.' You push the bike and its beaten you. Carry it and you're still showing it who's boss.

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:48 AM   #26781
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Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
I don't know from mtn biking, but I use these on my Sirrus, and I find them very useful for intense urban cyclo-flogging.
Silly question....can you use the 'flat' part of the pedal while wearing shoes with clips (If that makes sense) ? I like the look of these but what I'd like to be able to do is clip in on the flat portion of rides and then, say, when going uphill, flip the pedal over so I don't have issues un-clipping when going uphill.

Hope that made sense...
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:51 AM   #26782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weirdo View Post
I went to flats years ago for any real technical riding. I also can get out of a set of clips without thinking of it instantly, but for bridges and stunts flats are the way to go. You may lose something for climbing, but not enough to make it worth it for me. If your ten feet up on a teeter-totter and it goes wrong, you want to be able to abandon ship in a hurry.
I've definitely benefited from flats while climbing some really steep (but short) slopes. If I run out of inertia just before reaching the top, that extra power I can generate by pulling up hard on a pedal keeps me from stalling out. But on rock strewn trails with a steep drop on one side, I'd rather not be clipped in.

Quote:
What Gummee said about climbing steeps is bang on, you got to get on the rivet and tuck your elbows in to your ribs then punch it. Sounds obvious, but the faster you can go the easier it is, having enough momentum to roll over whatever is going to hang you up is key, then keeping the power going down come hell or high water. Being fit is a big player in being proficient in the technical stuff. Having consistent and ample power is huge.
I've pretty much got the technique down regarding body position, but I wanted to test a claim made by a couple of other riders that the smallest gear up front will get me up any hill. In retrospect, I think using the middle gear would have worked much better.

Quote:
There are climbs in Whistler that I've tried to make for decades (literally) that I've come within three pedal strokes to making, but never have. Usually after burning out or spazing Id make a noise like Chewbacca and want to throw my bike into the woods.
I know what you're saying. I actually hate trails like the ones I was on, but it pisses me off that others can ride them and that I can't. So I'm going to keep practicing until I figure it out. Once I've done it, I'll probably never ride them again.

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:54 AM   #26783
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Spoken like a true cross rider.
no, spoken as if the bike cared,...
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:03 AM   #26784
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Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Silly question....can you use the 'flat' part of the pedal while wearing shoes with clips (If that makes sense) ?
Yes, although you really need to be wearing clipless riding shoes with flexible rubber soles to get traction on the 'flat' side. The Bontrager shoes I wore yesterday have hard plastic soles, and will slide all over the place on flat pedals. They're completely useless for anything but clipless pedals. They also SUCK mightily for walking on rocky slopes, as I found out.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:04 AM   #26785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Silly question....can you use the 'flat' part of the pedal while wearing shoes with clips (If that makes sense) ? I like the look of these but what I'd like to be able to do is clip in on the flat portion of rides and then, say, when going uphill, flip the pedal over so I don't have issues un-clipping when going uphill.

Hope that made sense...
It does and they do. I unclip & pedal on the flat side when I think I'm gonna need to kick a cab or a bus. I wear these with those pedals, and it's a very good 'around town' combination.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:09 AM   #26786
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
I'm confused. You're going to go to flats so you can work on one aspect of a ride that lasts how long?
As long as I want it to last. I can ride red trails all day out there, if I have the energy and the inclination.

Quote:
No such thing. Sometimes it IS faster/easier to get off and carry the bike.
Well sure it is, but my purpose is learning to RIDE up steep hills, not to carry my bike up.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:13 AM   #26787
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Yes, although you really need to be wearing clipless riding shoes with flexible rubber soles to get traction on the 'flat' side. The Bontrager shoes I wore yesterday have hard plastic soles, and will slide all over the place on flat pedals. They're completely useless for anything but clipless pedals. They also SUCK mightily for walking on rocky slopes, as I found out.
Got it - I think the ones I have have a harder sole so that's great information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
It does and they do. I unclip & pedal on the flat side when I think I'm gonna need to kick a cab or a bus. I wear these with those pedals, and it's a very good 'around town' combination.
Thanks - I like the look of them. I might need to invest in some of those as the ones I have will probably not work going by what Aurelius said.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:37 AM   #26788
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Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Got it - I think the ones I have have a harder sole so that's great information.

Thanks - I like the look of them. I might need to invest in some of those as the ones I have will probably not work going by what Aurelius said.
Ones like Chisenhallw has are what you need. I have a pair of those, and they work great on both flats and clipless pedals. They're also very good for walking in. Their only real disadvantage is that they're flexible like a pair of sneakers, so your feet will move around inside them as the material stretches when pedaling hard. I'm also informed that they're not as comfortable on long rides because they don't provide enough support, but I haven't done enough back to back comparisons to say for sure.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:41 AM   #26789
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I've pretty much got the technique down regarding body position, but I wanted to test a claim made by a couple of other riders that the smallest gear up front will get me up any hill. In retrospect, I think using the middle gear would have worked much better.
It is just like a dirtbike. Sometimes if the traction sucks, you need to run a gear high (or more on a bicycle) so you don't spin as easily. You need to have the grunt though....
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:42 AM   #26790
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Well sure it is, but my purpose is learning to RIDE up steep hills, not to carry my bike up.
riding up steep hills is one thing; getting re-started on a steep hill is yet another. most mortals can ride up hills much steeper than they can re-start on, and restarting is an art in itself that requires finding the proper balance of weighting the bike, gently applying power in the correct gear, and basically balancing yourself so as to be able to lift your standing foot so lightly that you're essentially in the middle of a power stroke when your standing foot comes of the ground. (naturally, all this has to be done seated, with your weight on the saddle, or you'll just spin the rear tire.)
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