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Old 07-25-2013, 08:02 AM   #30166
Ridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Success!

First wheel is built. I guesstimated at ERD from the manf. +10mm. Ended up 2mm short. So next up: get spokes cut based on the #s I got from spocalc +2mm.



24mm tubular front is a go. Next up: the back, the 44mm rear clinchera, set of 38mm tubulars, THEN find a 20h front hub that goes with the D/A 7700 rear for the clincher set.

M
Are these wheels you're building for yourself, or the shop?
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:21 AM   #30167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
Are these wheels you're building for yourself, or the shop?
For me. I'm not a good enough wheelbuilder to be able to get em done quickly enough to do em for the shop. Let me correct that a little: once I get em laced right, I can get em done rather quickly. Its the getting em laced right (label lined up with the valve hole, no crossing spokes over the valve hole, etc) that takes the time.

Having $100+ of the wrong size spokes doesn't help with speed.

I don't build enough wheels to have the key spoke and its location memorized.

M
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:26 AM   #30168
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Bon chance, Ridgeman!
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:32 AM   #30169
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I programmed my HP- something to calculate spoke length, using an algorithm from Brandt. This was of course well before internet toys or excel was available in our pockets.
I used it to calculate spoke lengths for a couple of sets of wheels I built. One set of training sew-ups, a radial spoked front and my set of C-record hubbed MA40's. Every spoke was the perfect length. That was cool. But, I had to create my own database of values to work from. Getting the rim measurement right is a trick. I did it by using two spokes and a caliper.
I was never fast, so building as a profession would be dumb. Though I would not get fat.
The usual method of building wheels back then was to go to the pro-shop, (real bicycle shop run by an old European ex-racer) who would hand you the hubs you desired, rims spokes and nipples, then berate you for screwing it up a few days later when you came back with the rear wheel laced backwards.
But, then patiently demonstrate how to re-lace it correctly and send you on your way.
Then every time you walked in to buy some tubes, tires or just hang out, he'd ask if you broke those wheels yet.

Good times.
And yes, I've laced a wheel up completely backwards and mounted the tire and as I put into the frame noticed my error. It was 10:30-ish PM. There were a few raw words expended at somewhat elevated levels. The neighbors may have noticed. By, 1AM I had it corrected.
That has been long enough ago to not remember much more than that and which wheel that was, I think first rims on those old 36H Campy hubs, or maybe it was the second. Yeah, probably the second. Back when I could hear I could tune my spoke by ear. I even managed that with old airhead wheels from the 60's and 70's.
I still prefer the look of those old spoke rims from the 1974 R90S to most cast wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
For me. I'm not a good enough wheelbuilder to be able to get em done quickly enough to do em for the shop. Let me correct that a little: once I get em laced right, I can get em done rather quickly. Its the getting em laced right (label lined up with the valve hole, no crossing spokes over the valve hole, etc) that takes the time.

Having $100+ of the wrong size spokes doesn't help with speed.

I don't build enough wheels to have the key spoke and its location memorized.

M
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:36 AM   #30170
Ridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
For me. I'm not a good enough wheelbuilder to be able to get em done quickly enough to do em for the shop. Let me correct that a little: once I get em laced right, I can get em done rather quickly. Its the getting em laced right (label lined up with the valve hole, no crossing spokes over the valve hole, etc) that takes the time.

Having $100+ of the wrong size spokes doesn't help with speed.

I don't build enough wheels to have the key spoke and its location memorized.

M
Very cool. That's one skill I have yet to attempt... soon though!
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:41 AM   #30171
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Buy This Book First

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
Very cool. That's one skill I have yet to attempt... soon though!
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:53 AM   #30172
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
Very cool. That's one skill I have yet to attempt... soon though!
Buy the book. Read the book. Screw things up. Fix em. Get better. Repeat till you're decent at it. Then stop riding for 6 years and forget all you know so you have to re-learn it.

S'how I did it anyway.

I build most of my own wheels. I'll accumulate hubs and then find rims for em. ...or vice versa... I still have a stack 12" deep of box-section tubular rims from my days of racing track.

M

Edited to add: d by Mr Head. Oh well.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:55 AM   #30173
Gummee!
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Location: NoVA for now...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Head View Post
I programmed my HP- something to calculate spoke length, using an algorithm from Brandt. This was of course well before internet toys or excel was available in our pockets.
I used it to calculate spoke lengths for a couple of sets of wheels I built. One set of training sew-ups, a radial spoked front and my set of C-record hubbed MA40's. Every spoke was the perfect length. That was cool. But, I had to create my own database of values to work from. Getting the rim measurement right is a trick. I did it by using two spokes and a caliper.
I was never fast, so building as a profession would be dumb. Though I would not get fat.
The usual method of building wheels back then was to go to the pro-shop, (real bicycle shop run by an old European ex-racer) who would hand you the hubs you desired, rims spokes and nipples, then berate you for screwing it up a few days later when you came back with the rear wheel laced backwards.
But, then patiently demonstrate how to re-lace it correctly and send you on your way.
Then every time you walked in to buy some tubes, tires or just hang out, he'd ask if you broke those wheels yet.

Good times.
And yes, I've laced a wheel up completely backwards and mounted the tire and as I put into the frame noticed my error. It was 10:30-ish PM. There were a few raw words expended at somewhat elevated levels. The neighbors may have noticed. By, 1AM I had it corrected.
That has been long enough ago to not remember much more than that and which wheel that was, I think first rims on those old 36H Campy hubs, or maybe it was the second. Yeah, probably the second. Back when I could hear I could tune my spoke by ear. I even managed that with old airhead wheels from the 60's and 70's.
I still prefer the look of those old spoke rims from the 1974 R90S to most cast wheels.
I'm not sayin nuthin. Nope. Not a darn thing.

BTDT more'n I can count.

M
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:05 AM   #30174
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So because I would forget my ass if it wasn't attached I manged to ride 28 miles this morning.

......before I got to work so I could explain why I was three and a half hours late because I would forget my ass if it wasn't attached.

I only live 6 miles from my door to the gate, I made that trip 4 1/2 times Not my morning.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:08 AM   #30175
Ridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Head View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Buy the book. Read the book. Screw things up. Fix em. Get better. Repeat till you're decent at it. Then stop riding for 6 years and forget all you know so you have to re-learn it.

S'how I did it anyway.

I build most of my own wheels. I'll accumulate hubs and then find rims for em. ...or vice versa... I still have a stack 12" deep of box-section tubular rims from my days of racing track.

M

Edited to add: d by Mr Head. Oh well.
Much grass, mee ameegos!
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:26 AM   #30176
Tripped1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Buy the book. Read the book. Screw things up. Fix em. Get better. Repeat till you're decent at it. Then stop riding for 6 years and forget all you know so you have to re-learn it.

This is the story of my life here.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #30177
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Yeah that read part is important. I did it while I was in engineering school. meant I studied the book more than casually read it as a how-to.

There were a lot of pencil scribbles in my world then.

I need to re-true that rear wheel of mine again. Those Roval wheels suck for staying in tune under my wide load. I broke one spoke a while ago and the replacement spoke is smaller in cross section. Wrong color too.
Need to figure out how to fix that.
My truing stand and offset tool are in some storage unit. I know nothing about how to find them. So, I'll have to wait for my wife to show me, and in the mean time use the bike.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:09 AM   #30178
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Head View Post
Yeah that read part is important. I did it while I was in engineering school. meant I studied the book more than casually read it as a how-to.

There were a lot of pencil scribbles in my world then.

I need to re-true that rear wheel of mine again. Those Roval wheels suck for staying in tune under my wide load. I broke one spoke a while ago and the replacement spoke is smaller in cross section. Wrong color too.
Need to figure out how to fix that.
My truing stand and offset tool are in some storage unit. I know nothing about how to find them. So, I'll have to wait for my wife to show me, and in the mean time find some 32/32 training wheels on ebay.
fixt

M
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:14 AM   #30179
zippy
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amen on the 32/32. Although I bought mine with chris king hubs and had to learn to set the preload after the hubs loosened a bit. While I was intimidated by the thought the actual act was pretty damn easy.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:22 AM   #30180
Gummee!
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Originally Posted by zippy View Post
amen on the 32/32. Although I bought mine with chris king hubs and had to learn to set the preload after the hubs loosened a bit. While I was intimidated by the thought the actual act was pretty damn easy.
90% of my riding is on 32/32 wheels. I have one set of 28/32 wheels I ride lots too. My opinon for training is 'more spokes is more better.' Durability, ease of repair, and durability all count more than aero or even weight **for training.** Yes, I typed durability twice on purpose. I have wheelsets older than some of the people I ride with!

M
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