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Old 08-01-2013, 05:21 AM   #30316
Ridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
So right before the 4 of us caught up to the other 5, a truck passes us and yells 'go home!' at us. Thinking to myself: Umm dood. Unless you have a Star Trek transporter beam in that truck I don't know about, we ARE going home. None of us live out in The Plains.



Like yelling 'go home!' is going to magically make us disappear?

I've decided that the minute someone opens their mouth to yell at me out their window, that their opinion doesn't matter 'cause they're obviously too stupid to have figured 'it' out.

My usual answer to pretty much anything yelled at me out the window has become 'I love you too!' with a big grin and a wave.
Arguing with redneck logic is like asking a cow to take a dump in a toilet. It's just not going to end well...
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Old 08-01-2013, 05:57 AM   #30317
2whl-hoop
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Strava observations...

Last night I was able to go on my weekly (if I'm lucky) ride. My riding buddy has the Strava iphone app and I use a Garmin Edge 500, then I upload the file from my computer to Strava, if I want to.

I started my timer just before we started the ride, but my buddy forgot to start his until we were at least 1/4 mile into it. My stats for the ride were 30.6 miles at 16.0 mph avg. His were 31.2 at 16.5 mph . Considering I was the lead rider 99% of the time, I'm not sure how he went .6 miles further than I did. Also, there was one climbing segment that we both tried to do well on. He started it maybe a bike length ahead of me, but I passed him and finished several bike lengths ahead. Strava said he did the climb two seconds faster than I did.

My buddy gets pretty wrapped up with his segment times and rankings. I think this just shows how they don't mean much except as a reference to your own past performance. He's a premium member though, so maybe he gets bonus miles or something

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:14 AM   #30318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
So right before the 4 of us caught up to the other 5, a truck passes us and yells 'go home!' at us. Thinking to myself: Umm dood. Unless you have a Star Trek transporter beam in that truck I don't know about, we ARE going home.
Honestly, and this might be a hot-button, but this sort of thing is why I'm in favor of open-carry for cyclists.
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:14 AM   #30319
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2whl-hoop View Post
Last night I was able to go on my weekly (if I'm lucky) ride. My riding buddy has the Strava iphone app and I use a Garmin Edge 500, then I upload the file from my computer to Strava, if I want to.

I started my timer just before we started the ride, but my buddy forgot to start his until we were at least 1/4 mile into it. My stats for the ride were 30.6 miles at 16.0 mph avg. His were 31.2 at 16.5 mph . Considering I was the lead rider 99% of the time, I'm not sure how he went .6 miles further than I did. Also, there was one climbing segment that we both tried to do well on. He started it maybe a bike length ahead of me, but I passed him and finished several bike lengths ahead. Strava said he did the climb two seconds faster than I did.

My buddy gets pretty wrapped up with his segment times and rankings. I think this just shows how they don't mean much except as a reference to your own past performance. He's a premium member though, so maybe he gets bonus miles or something
Strava's website says that even under ideal conditions (where it sees eight satelites), distance measurements are only accurate to within 7 meters (23 feet). I've seen even worse miscalculations than the one you report. On one segment, I currently hold the 2nd fastest time, with an average speed of 30.4 mph. First place is listed as 31.6 mph, but if you click on the Performance tab, you'll find that at no time did that rider exceed 29 mph, and most of the time he was below that. So how could his 'average speed' possibly be 2.6 mph higher than his fastest speed?

Strava's support staff explained it this way:

Hello,

Thanks for reporting this. In general the average speed calculated over a segment can be different than a user's actual average speed. This is because the calculated segment average speed uses the segment distance and the users time on the segment but the users time on the segment can be from a shorter distance than the actual segment distance. So they're timed over .56 miles but the segment distance is .6 miles. This causes the average speed over that segment to be exaggerated.

However, there can be other reasons for this as well. For example, if the user is using a speed sensor that is incorrectly calibrated. The speeds that appear on their activity data will be from their speed sensor, which may be too slow, but their actual speed could be higher.

Unfortunately there is no way to really correct this or be more accurate about this unless and until we start using GPS point interpolation. I apologize for any inaccuracies.

Cheers,
Travis
Strava Support Team
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:15 AM   #30320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Strava's website says .......

Are you this competitive in everything?
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:54 AM   #30321
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Originally Posted by enduro0125 View Post
Are you this competitive in everything?
I don't see the point of commiting myself to anything unless I do it to the best of my ability.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:06 AM   #30322
Mr Head
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The Garmin 2610 I use mostly on the motorcycle has returned some odd top speeds.














Somewhere I have a shot showing more than 600 mph.
A funny thing, my Specialized Cycling computer would pick up the drive shaft or trans speed sensor in a Chrysler 300 rental car I have up in Everett. I'd get back to the hotel and see max speeds exceeding 60 mph and really big distance numbers.
On my iPhone 4 I use STRAVA, but I also have MotionX GPS that I'm told if I turn that on, the whole GPS is better/more accurate. No idea if that is true. But, my STRAVA distances align closely to my cycle computer. As long as I keep the computer out of Chryslers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Strava's website says that even under ideal conditions (where it sees eight satelites), distance measurements are only accurate to within 7 meters (23 feet). I've seen even worse miscalculations than the one you report. On one segment, I currently hold the 2nd fastest time, with an average speed of 30.4 mph. First place is listed as 31.6 mph, but if you click on the Performance tab, you'll find that at no time did that rider exceed 29 mph, and most of the time he was below that. So how could his 'average speed' possibly be 2.6 mph higher than his fastest speed?

Strava's support staff explained it this way:

Hello,

Thanks for reporting this. In general the average speed calculated over a segment can be different than a user's actual average speed. This is because the calculated segment average speed uses the segment distance and the users time on the segment but the users time on the segment can be from a shorter distance than the actual segment distance. So they're timed over .56 miles but the segment distance is .6 miles. This causes the average speed over that segment to be exaggerated.

However, there can be other reasons for this as well. For example, if the user is using a speed sensor that is incorrectly calibrated. The speeds that appear on their activity data will be from their speed sensor, which may be too slow, but their actual speed could be higher.

Unfortunately there is no way to really correct this or be more accurate about this unless and until we start using GPS point interpolation. I apologize for any inaccuracies.

Cheers,
Travis
Strava Support Team
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:22 AM   #30323
Ridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enduro0125 View Post
Are you this competitive in everything?
That's a loaded question... as, technically, he does not compete. At least not outside the virtual world anyway. He prefers the "safety" of virtual racing over close-proximity, actual physical exertion over a pre-set course with like-minded individuals ready to hand you your ass at any given moment.

Hell, half the fun of real racing is talking shit to your teammates and competitors pre, during and post-race.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:26 AM   #30324
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We were riding through Evergreen Colorado on a back road wide shoulder, we were riding on, and a guy in a pick up truck comes near, slows and yells, "This isn't Boulder!"
You are correct sir. It's not London either. We all just waved happily.
provided a lot of conversation for the climb up to Mt Evans.

I'm going to stay specifically away form any group racer rides. My knees don't need that kind of work. And I know from experience I won't ever have it again. Too much damage in there to ever go back to the levels it takes to be actually fast.
I miss the road work though. That stuff is fun, even when my buddy and I would get dropped at mile 18 of 122 miles and spend the next five hours semi-lost on the plains of Colorado. It took about two months before we could get back to town before the restaurant closed. Eventually we got to where we could keep up, then pull, then jump, then beat the juniors on descents.

My legs feel a lot better this morning than they did yesterday up to the point I turned around at the Pond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
So today's Wed right? Guess who woke up with a headache on his day off. Rather: guess who's headache woke him up on his day off? More accurate question.

Mowed half of my 'half' of the yard. Changed the right shifter on the mtn bike. Finished truing/tensioning my rear 38mm carbon tubular I got from china. Took a nap.

...then said 'eff it! I'm going to the Wed ride despite feeling crappy.'

So I schlepped myself over to Haymarket. Just before the town limit sign, the skies open up. Hmmm no bueno, but I'm here, effit! I'll ride anyway.

Yes, I was dropped on the first hill again. One of these days...

There was a guy behind me that probably should've gone on the B ride, but hey! the more the merrier, right?! So we pacelined down to the Plains with me taking more/longer pulls and waiting for him on the hills.

The next little bit is something of a blur as I wandered into and out of a lactic acid-induced haze. I remember being OTF for a bit till the attacks started coming thick and fast, then hanging on for dear life for a bit till I recovered.

Managed to tag on to the back of the Cat 1 and the Cat 2 that were working together at the first sprint, but I didn't have the legs to sprint and sat up. Still came in 5th or so despite not sprinting, but I gotta work on that somehow.

The second lap was going to be a repeat of the first till the skies opened up in a rainstorm of biblical proportion. Rain hurts! I started to get chilly, so got my ass on the front and pulled at just below where I blow up for a bit.

...then the attacks started again and I didn't have anything left. 4 of us got dropped and were working together to catch on. Only way we did catch was a stop sign and traffic coming. :whew Still raining cats and dogs, mind you.

At this point, I'm riding by braille 'cause my glasses are so fogged I can hardly see thru em. Every once in a while, they'd clear up and I could see something but otherwise, I was relying on memory of the road to avoid stuff. Mostly worked.

So right before the 4 of us caught up to the other 5, a truck passes us and yells 'go home!' at us. Thinking to myself: Umm dood. Unless you have a Star Trek transporter beam in that truck I don't know about, we ARE going home. None of us live out in The Plains.



Like yelling 'go home!' is going to magically make us disappear?

I've decided that the minute someone opens their mouth to yell at me out their window, that their opinion doesn't matter 'cause they're obviously too stupid to have figured 'it' out.

My usual answer to pretty much anything yelled at me out the window has become 'I love you too!' with a big grin and a wave.

Back to the ride 'cause that was pretty much the only idiot on the ride tonite (other than the person that HAD to pass a line of 15-20 riders to turn 100m down the road ) So coming out of The Plains B and S were toodling on the front. My HR had dropped down into the 90s and I was getting chilly.

Then the attack happened.

Then the chase started.

Then we all caught up after some of the hardest riding I've done in a while.

For which I paid a little later as we got to the 'steep' section of Waterfall Rd. Waterfall 'steps' up in both directions. The 'out' side is much steeper and shorter. The 'in' side is longer and gentler. I can *usually* hang on the 'in' portion of the ride.

Not so tonite. Got popped right before the 'steep' section and that's all she wrote. My riding buddy, B, droped off with me and we 2-man TTed it all the way to the sprint line. I was trying to keep speeds of ~25-26mph when I was pulling. We slowed down some towards the end, but that's because the road rises slightly. There's only so long I can keep my HR right below 150. I'd reached that point a while ago but kept pushing and hoping. Once the speed ratcheted up that little bit more, I didn't have it.

My head doesn't hurt nearly as much as it did 'cause my legs were hurting more. Kinda like that old 'I can step on your toe...' theory of headache abatement: make something else hurt more than your head.

The guy that I rode with to The Plans? Turned around and headed back. He was in over his head. Least he knew where he was.

Hope your ride went well.

M
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:27 AM   #30325
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Head View Post
The Garmin 2610 I use mostly on the motorcycle has returned some odd top speeds. Somewhere I have a shot showing more than 600 mph.

A funny thing, my Specialized Cycling computer would pick up the drive shaft or trans speed sensor in a Chrysler 300 rental car I have up in Everett. I'd get back to the hotel and see max speeds exceeding 60 mph and really big distance numbers.
On my iPhone 4 I use STRAVA, but I also have MotionX GPS that I'm told if I turn that on, the whole GPS is better/more accurate. No idea if that is true. But, my STRAVA distances align closely to my cycle computer. As long as I keep the computer out of Chryslers.
Those types of errors are pretty common. You'll typically find them on Strava when riders rely solely on the GPS data, without using wheel sensors. You can tell right away who they are because their Performance graph will not be a smooth line but a very jagged one, showing huge increases and decreases in speed over very short time intervals. In some cases I've seen riders go from something like 15 mph to over 40 mph almost instantly.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:29 AM   #30326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Looks late 80s to mid-90s based on what I can see. If you look down the seat tube and see rifling around the bottom ~6" of the tube, its SLX. If you see rifling all the way up, its TSX. The rest? Hard to say.
Thanks but alas no rifling - just what appears to be a smooth inner surface down to the axle area. I've found another frame on ebay that has some identical fittings and its got an Italian name - which may indicate italian tubing - or not? I google Canelli and it just wants to find u-know-who. I'm now thinking it may be the one lower than columbus SL - whatever that is. The weight saving slots on the BB appears more functional than pretty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Head View Post
What is the inside diameter of the seat tube? If it's the usual 25.4mm or (1.00in) then it's maybe something good. The BB though looks French to me. The chain stay drive side kink looks unlike Italian stuff. I'm guessing non-butted steel.
Thanks. My analogue Mitutoyo vernier calliper says ~27.2mm so not much joy there.

I'm going to get some weights of similar sized frames SL, SLX et al with headsets and axles fitted to see if there's much difference in weight overall. Other than that, this is going to become a not too precious urban bike.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:50 AM   #30327
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Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
That's a loaded question... as, technically, he does not compete. At least not outside the virtual world anyway. He prefers the "safety" of virtual racing over close-proximity, actual physical exertion over a pre-set course with like-minded individuals ready to hand you your ass at any given moment.

Hell, half the fun of real racing is talking shit to your teammates and competitors pre, during and post-race.
So true. When I commute home, there's a short, steep climb up from Crissy Field to the Golden Gate Bridge. I was rolling down the bike path on Crissy Field when another guy rolls by on the left. I said Hi and he didn't even acknowledge me, even though we were two feet apart. I gave him some room and caught him right at the beginning of the climb. I rolled up next to him and said "Let's get it!" and stood to launch.

Dropped him. I got to the top, got off my bike, took a couple pictures and asked waved HI when he went by.

At least he didn't flip me off.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:51 AM   #30328
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
That's a loaded question... as, technically, he does not compete. At least not outside the virtual world anyway. He prefers the "safety" of virtual racing over close-proximity, actual physical exertion over a pre-set course with like-minded individuals ready to hand you your ass at any given moment.
Actually, both of you are making wrong assumptions. Many locals participate in 'Strava Smackdowns' where one of us sets a new PR and then invites all the local 'fast guys' to try and beat it. I prefer that, because there's no risk of injury from crashing into other racers or getting stuck behind a pack of slower riders. Best of all, you can do it any time it's convenient.

Quote:
Hell, half the fun of real racing is talking shit to your teammates and competitors pre, during and post-race.
I'll have that chance once I start TT racing, which offers most of the benefits of Strava races. Unfortunately these are always scheduled for Tuesday evenings, just when I'm doing my VQ racing classes.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:10 AM   #30329
Ridge
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Actually, both of you are making wrong assumptions. Many locals participate in 'Strava Smackdowns' where one of us sets a new PR and then invites all the local 'fast guys' to try and beat it. I prefer that, because there's no risk of injury from crashing into other racers or getting stuck behind a pack of slower riders. Best of all, you can do it any time it's convenient.



I'll have that chance once I start TT racing, which offers most of the benefits of Strava races. Unfortunately these are always scheduled for Tuesday evenings, just when I'm doing my VQ racing classes.
Sadly, you are mired in a virtual world that is completely devoid of the soul that embodies bicycle racing. Luckily you have taken the initiative to improve your fitness and actually step foot out into the real world of racing... even if it's just a TT. I sincerely hope once you toe the line of a true physical race with other actual human beings in the same physical proximity that you begin to appreciate the camaraderie and elements of risk that are appreciated, revered and respected by true competitors.

Racing is not about convenience. It is all about sharing the inconvenience that is part and parcel to suffering. Reading the body language of your competitors and testing the limits of your abilities against theirs head-to-head on the battlefields of pavement and dirt in every condition that Mother Nature can throw at you. To suffer through the elements and cross the finish line in a mess of dirt, sweat, bug guts and shake the hand of the racer that crossed the line before or after you is an experience we should all have the benefit of. To be humble in the face of those that bested you is to be human. Knowing that on another day, on another course, you will meet again and have the chance to battle. It's an immense rush of endorphins, adrenaline and emotions that simply cannot be replicated solo. If you think it is... you are kidding yourself.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:12 AM   #30330
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
So true. When I commute home, there's a short, steep climb up from Crissy Field to the Golden Gate Bridge. I was rolling down the bike path on Crissy Field when another guy rolls by on the left. I said Hi and he didn't even acknowledge me, even though we were two feet apart. I gave him some room and caught him right at the beginning of the climb. I rolled up next to him and said "Let's get it!" and stood to launch.

Dropped him. I got to the top, got off my bike, took a couple pictures and asked waved HI when he went by.

At least he didn't flip me off.
I had a particularly nasty reaction from a local racer-wannabe who was competing with me on one of our favorite Strava segments. In person, he seems to be a nice guy. I didn't realize the depths of his pettiness until he made a comment on Facebook accusing me of 'cheating' by conserving my energy on other parts of the trail just to beat his record. I was only one place ahead of him on the leader board, so the next day I took another run at it. That result pushed me up to 2nd place while demoting him from 5th to 6th in the process. In response, he changed his Strava privacy settings so that I could no longer read his results, and the next day he unfriended me on Facebook. I noticed that he also hasn't shown up for any of our trail workdays, which he's never missed before. I'm sure it's because he knew I'd be there and wanted to avoid a confrontation.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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