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Old 09-27-2013, 08:05 AM   #31426
Ridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Guero View Post
I just emailed Wayne there. I'm going back and forth between Ortlieb and Lone Peak. I did a little more reading and some people say you want waterproof, some people say you don't, honestly I can see it both ways but I definitely lean towards waterproof.
I've always been a proponent of soft bags using waterproof liners and multiple inner bags to protect/organize contents. I still want the stuff to be protected from the elements when I remove them from the panniers.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:32 AM   #31427
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that's me too.

it makes it a bit more of a hassle to get things in and out, but all my small bags fit into large ziplock freezer bags.

watterproof panniers are almost always heavier, and i don't necessarily want panniers that trap all the moisture in all the time.
if you're unfortunate enough to spend a few days in the rain, it seems like nothing is so waterproof anyway.

furthermore, i'd rather leave dirty wet panniers on the bike and bring just the ziplocks with everything in them or just the smaller bags into my tent/living space. (just like using bag liners in the System Cases on the moto.)
nice lightweight breathable panniers work will most of the time, and ziplocks are a simple solution for the rest of the time.


cheers!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
I've always been a proponent of soft bags using waterproof liners and multiple inner bags to protect/organize contents. I still want the stuff to be protected from the elements when I remove them from the panniers.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:41 AM   #31428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
I've always been a proponent of soft bags using waterproof liners and multiple inner bags to protect/organize contents. I still want the stuff to be protected from the elements when I remove them from the panniers.
+1

On motorcycle trips, I put everything in big zip loc bags or small dry bags and THEN put them into my side bags.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:55 AM   #31429
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The Ortlieb waterproof bags have provisions to mount smaller mesh bags on the outside. I'm thinking this may split the difference a bit if you need to air things out... I've pretty much decided against the roll-top Ortlieb bags but the ones with the drawstrings seem like they might be easier to let air out if you want.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #31430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
http://salsacycles.com/bikes/2014_vaya_2

I'm kind of behind in this thread, but the silhouette is nearly identical to Salsa's Vaya, except for the skinny eat stays. It's pretty cool that the huge companies are taking cues from smaller manufacturers...
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:16 PM   #31431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
I've always been a proponent of soft bags using waterproof liners and multiple inner bags to protect/organize contents. I still want the stuff to be protected from the elements when I remove them from the panniers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zouch View Post
that's me too.

it makes it a bit more of a hassle to get things in and out, but all my small bags fit into large ziplock freezer bags.

watterproof panniers are almost always heavier, and i don't necessarily want panniers that trap all the moisture in all the time.
if you're unfortunate enough to spend a few days in the rain, it seems like nothing is so waterproof anyway.

furthermore, i'd rather leave dirty wet panniers on the bike and bring just the ziplocks with everything in them or just the smaller bags into my tent/living space. (just like using bag liners in the System Cases on the moto.)
nice lightweight breathable panniers work will most of the time, and ziplocks are a simple solution for the rest of the time.


cheers!
I'm learning, too.

The only downside to the Ortliebs is weight and they'll hold moisture?

Why wouldn't I just put my smaller ziplocs and such inside the Ortliebs?

I guess, I'm not seeing enough justification to not go with Ortliebs. I'm not fit and trim, so weight isn't a huge concern. And, the moisture doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, as I'd just air them out when needed, like I do my motorcycle drybag. IDK, just thinking aloud. And, the Revelate stuff is intriguing, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2whl-hoop View Post
It's pretty cool that the huge companies are taking cues from smaller manufacturers...
Agreed.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:17 PM   #31432
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:20 PM   #31433
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^^^ Yeah, that's just nuts.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:41 PM   #31434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2whl-hoop View Post
http://salsacycles.com/bikes/2014_vaya_2

I'm kind of behind in this thread, but the silhouette is nearly identical to Salsa's Vaya, except for the skinny eat stays. It's pretty cool that the huge companies are taking cues from smaller manufacturers...

Salsa Cycles is owned by Quality Bicycle Products. Same for Surly.

QBP made something like 161 million dollars last year.

Although Specialized is half owned by Merida of Taiwan, so I suppose in comparison Salsa my seem smaller.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:56 PM   #31435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Guero View Post
I just emailed Wayne there. I'm going back and forth between Ortlieb and Lone Peak. I did a little more reading and some people say you want waterproof, some people say you don't, honestly I can see it both ways but I definitely lean towards waterproof.
Wayne will be be a big help to you, He know he's products well.Call him with any questions. He'll spend the time with you,A rare thing these days.

I bought ortlieb's, Classic Rollers. They're the ones with the roll top and a more plastic look to them. I bought rollers because they're smaller,I've learned from having a GS (got stuff) with jessies. If you got the room you'll fill them up. The way they attach to the bike seems less apt to fall off. I've lost a pannier or two on unpaved mountain roads back in the day. I think most panniers today are built better. also do you like pockets, or a bigtop loader

The Lone peak have optional rain covers get them.They 'll keep your panniers cleaner,the Cordora well get gritty with road spray. Have fun with your purchase. hope you enjoy touring.



Here's on older pic of my rig
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:16 PM   #31436
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what's the advantage of always carrying a heavier bag? especially one that doesn't breathe?

aside from the fact that after a few days on the road you're likley to be trying to find every ounce you can to mail home and not have to carry any more, i prefer having the option of *not* creating mold and mildew on everything in the bags by having panniers that breathe a bit...


cheers!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
I'm learning, too.

The only [TWO] downside[(s)] to the Ortliebs is weight and they'll hold moisture?

Why wouldn't I just put my smaller ziplocs and such inside the Ortliebs?

I guess, I'm not seeing enough justification to not go with Ortliebs. I'm not fit and trim, so weight isn't a huge concern. And, the moisture doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, as I'd just air them out when needed, like I do my motorcycle drybag. IDK, just thinking aloud. And, the Revelate stuff is intriguing, too.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:28 PM   #31437
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clearly we have different ideas of what's "relevant"; i personally have no interest in most anything you mentioned, and didn't see anything that really had any possible bearing on the subject until your last line mentioning neck issues.

(different strokes, clearly; i'm long past having any interest in doing events where i'm riding with only 3 hours sleep, and i'm guessing you don't spend nearly as much time on the road as traffic or on and off trains, or play in areas where your basic short 1.5 hour Fun Ride includes 2000' of climbing and possible dirt detours...)

if riding a 'bent is the only option you've got to keep you riding due to neck issues, that's great... but that doesn't make a 'bent "better", or necessarily the answer for anyone else.


Quote:
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I was referring to basic design elements. The UCI effectively killed a cycling segment with their ban but there are top level cyclists who are proving they can complete.



You are correct - there are some disadvantages but none of them are really significant. In the last two years, I've probably got 3000 miles in brevets alone in all conditions, terrain and in city conditions that range from LA to the hill country in Texas - from CO to Kansas. Nothing you listed prevented me from completing an event.

Have there been times when I wished I could jump over something? To be honest, with my forward vision..and here's the key for me: if I'm paying attention, I can avoid objects in the road. I think in my 1200-km events, I've had three flats total.

One was a goathead thorn, one was a gap between the road and a hotel parking lot that was at least 4" that I couldn't have jumped if I wanted to because I didn't see it and the other was road debris that cut my tire. That was about 30 minutes after the other flat and again, it was dark, I was tired after 3 hours of sleep and it was windy & cold. I filed that one under "shit happens" instead, "dammit - no bunny hop".

Different stokes - my lemonade is pretty good considering my neck issues.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:32 PM   #31438
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You guys really aren't helping with my decision

Funny thing though, I actually ran into a guy at the bar tonight who carried in a pair of Ortliebs. He recommended them anyway
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:49 PM   #31439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zouch View Post
what's the advantage of always carrying a heavier bag? especially one that doesn't breathe?

aside from the fact that after a few days on the road you're likley to be trying to find every ounce you can to mail home and not have to carry any more, i prefer having the option of *not* creating mold and mildew on everything in the bags by having panniers that breathe a bit...
I didn't realize mold and mildew would be an issue.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:16 PM   #31440
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Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
I didn't realize mold and mildew would be an issue.
I've got canvas bags with a light water proofing. On a tour a few years ago with some friends a heavy downpour got us soaked. My gear barely got wet in the bags, but considering we weren't riding nekkid, at some point wet clothing had to get packed away. a couple days later I was the only one with dry gear because of my bags.
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