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Old 08-28-2007, 08:01 AM   #6001
Cat0020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomD
No argument that for that criteria that is an interesting bike, I just think there is a lot more to bike selection than frame material. A Trek Pilot is also carbon, but a very different bike.
I didn't limit the choice of frame material to be carbon fiber only.

Besides, top of the line TREK Pilot cost $2300+ and it is 105 equipped.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:04 AM   #6002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomD
No argument that for that criteria that is an interesting bike, I just think there is a lot more to bike selection than frame material. A Trek Pilot is also carbon, but a very different bike.

Trek doesn't sell the Pilot anymore. If you want a carbon Trek road bike, you're getting a Madone of some flavor or another - bikes that look not too different from that motobecane posted above.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:20 AM   #6003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knary

Trek doesn't sell the Pilot anymore. If you want a carbon Trek road bike, you're getting a Madone of some flavor or another - bikes that look not too different from that motobecane posted above.
Wow, that's a darn shame. It is still on their web site, so this must be a recent thing.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:25 AM   #6004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomD
Advice givers rarely take the time to offer good advice. (Not me of course, my advice is solid.)



-thom

Thom - I have seen no evidence of "bad" advice given in this thread. People tend to advise towards things that they have found to work well for them. Advice is advice not the gospel according to &(%^$ .
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:27 AM   #6005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomD
Wow, that's a darn shame. It is still on their web site, so this must be a recent thing.

I can't find it on their site.

The story I heard was that if someone was shopping for a nice bike, they were buying a Madone and throwing in a spacer or two and a different stem if they wanted something a little more upright rather than buying the Pilot which with its very upright frame geometry was less flexible.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:35 AM   #6006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knary

I can't find it on their site.

The story I heard was that if someone was shopping for a nice bike, they were buying a Madone and throwing in a spacer or two and a different stem if they wanted something a little more upright rather than buying the Pilot which with its very upright frame geometry was less flexible.
www.trekbikes.com -> Road -> Pilots.

There is also a mention on the Trek blog of Pilots in a discussion of 2008 models.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:35 AM   #6007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
Thom - I have seen no evidence of "bad" advice given in this thread. People tend to advise towards things that they have found to work well for them. Advice is advice not the gospel according to &(%^$ .
I did not offer advice, I simply offered information to Bueller's inquery about his next possible bike.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:42 AM   #6008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat0020
I did not offer advice, I simply offered information to Bueller's inquery about his next possible bike.

Mine was a general statement . Wasn't trying to single out anyone .
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:43 AM   #6009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
Thom - I have seen no evidence of "bad" advice given in this thread. People tend to advise towards things that they have found to work well for them. Advice is advice not the gospel according to &(%^$ .
I'm not saying anyone is deliberately giving poor advice. I figure if somebody offers the same advice to all comers, that advice isn't the best. Think about the people who say, always/never get a HD/Vstrom/R1200/FZ6/etc.

People asking the most basic questions may not even know that the advice they are getting isn't tailored to their specific needs/desires. They don't know what their options are so they don't offer key details (I want to put on fenders. or I live some place really flat/hilly.) because they don't know that it can make a big difference.

Of course people tend to suggest what works for them. Unfortunately most people cannot separate themselves from a situation and critically examine the requirements to see if what worked for them will work for somebody else. And yes, people do take the advice of perceived experts with a willing heart.

Again, I'm not singling out any one poster or request. This happens everywhere, in meat space and on the net.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:44 AM   #6010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomD
www.trekbikes.com -> Road -> Pilots.

There is also a mention on the Trek blog of Pilots in a discussion of 2008 models.
Then I must be mistaken.

I do know that the local big Trek dealer is only selling hold over models and doesn't plan on carrying them next year.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:45 AM   #6011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomD
I'm not saying anyone is deliberately giving poor advice. I figure if somebody offers the same advice to all comers, that advice isn't the best. Think about the people who say, always/never get a HD/Vstrom/R1200/FZ6/etc.

People asking the most basic questions may not even know that the advice they are getting isn't tailored to their specific needs/desires. They don't know what their options are so they don't offer key details (I want to put on fenders. or I live some place really flat/hilly.) because they don't know that it can make a big difference.

Of course people tend to suggest what works for them. Unfortunately most people cannot separate themselves from a situation and critically examine the requirements to see if what worked for them will work for somebody else. And yes, people do take the advice of perceived experts with a willing heart.

Again, I'm not singling out any one poster or request. This happens everywhere, in meat space and on the net.


So you're complaining about people giving bad advice but don't have any examples of it.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:47 AM   #6012
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I think everybody should buy 58cm $5000+ road bikes.

And then loan them to me for a while.

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Old 08-28-2007, 08:50 AM   #6013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Askel
I think everybody should buy 58cm $5000+ road bikes.

And then loan them to me for a while.


I got an Aegis with your name on it in St Pete if'n you ever head south.
I got it used for $500, I hope its fancy enough for ya.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:53 AM   #6014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knary


So you're complaining about people giving bad advice but don't have any examples of it.
Go back to the motobecane I started with. That is a good example of "advice" (regardless of what Cat says) that jumped right to a potential solution without examining the details of the situation.(Wait, this is JM - maybe I should say "That bike sucks stay away from it.")

This happens all over the place. Again, not picking on anyone here, new people often wade into a forum and ask, "What's the best xxx?" A couple of regular posters then chime in with their favorite answer. I think this is a bad way to resolve a problem or answer a question.

We've gone way off topic here, so I'll throw in a bike that I love but would not recommend to all riders.

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Old 08-28-2007, 10:22 AM   #6015
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Maybe ThomD should have read the criteria more carfully:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller
I'm thinking full carbon. I don't want to burn 5 grand on a bike, but I don't mind parting with some cash to get something really nice. However, as I was riding today I was wondering about the merits of things like selecting frames and cranks specific to my body geometry. I'm a very mechanical guy and wouldn't hesitate to build a bike if it yielded some obvious benefits, but if dropping a grand or two on a name brand will yield me approximately the same thing or if I can just buy something very close right off the shelf why go through the hassle?

What do you think?
No single bike is 100% suitable for everyone's needs.
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