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Old 11-06-2008, 05:52 PM   #9061
skibum69
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People keep popping up bike pics-I wasn't specifically shooting my bike but here it is resting yesterday. I'll try for a better shot next time.


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Old 11-07-2008, 06:21 AM   #9062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsLizVt


NotMike, DoctorIt, et al, Hi!

That's one great thing about the skinny tire world and the moto-tire world, both can be rather small. Speaking of small world, DoctorIt, for a while I lived and raced in Sydney, Australia, not quite next door to Brisbane, but still.

Fran is an amazingly, interesting person. Did I hear he's married and has kids?

I met Peter back in the early 80's when Wheelworks was just he and John in the Belmont shop. They were tuning bikes, putting training wheels on for the consumers child, and building beautiful hand made bikes. Peter's shop was the large closet in the back of the store. Oh I feel so old!

Speaking of small world, does anyone know Tiffany Mann? I think she's doing single speed mountain bike racing for IF now.

This was taken in Harvard, Mass at the finish when I was racing for Dreambikes on a Scandium Ciooc, loved that bike!



Liz



I know Tiffany. Her and my coworker Skip Brown had a child a couple of years ago. They both still race single speeds, but on a pretty limited basis.

A few years ago I walked into Great BAy Triumph, where I bought my Tiger, and who do I see? Fran. He was service manager there for a bit. My girlfriend was with me, who used to race bikes and knew Fran, but Fran didn't know we were together. We all kinda stared at each other for a bit. Fran ended up marrying Ruben Millor's ex-wife, whom he met after she got into motorbikes too. I'm no longer surprised when I meet someone on a motorbike I used to race with back in the day.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:39 PM   #9063
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I don't want to jinx any possible deals that may be in the works but... I've got my Scott Speedster up for sale and I intend to purchase another mountain bike once the garage space becomes available.

Suggestions for a good all around hardtail? Not looking to drop over $1K; open to a good, clean used bike as well.

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Old 11-13-2008, 05:07 PM   #9064
RichBeBe
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Not sure f any of you old BMXers caught this thread. Joe Kid on a STING-RAY totally worth watching.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:59 AM   #9065
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Here's the dilemma: Moterbiker's left knee keeps blowing up on 25+ mile rides. Swelling and actual bruising. We've taken the bike in for a set up - seat height is fine, cleats were adjusted. Same occurrence next ride. He's switched back to toe-clips, but hasn't tried that out yet, as we are waiting for the knee to heal.

Any other ideas/culprits?
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:27 PM   #9066
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Short answer ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy
Here's the dilemma: Moterbiker's left knee keeps blowing up on 25+ mile rides. Swelling and actual bruising. We've taken the bike in for a set up - seat height is fine, cleats were adjusted. Same occurrence next ride. He's switched back to toe-clips, but hasn't tried that out yet, as we are waiting for the knee to heal.

Any other ideas/culprits?

Gypsy et al, Hi!

Most likely you all have gone through a lot of different thought processes and have answers for them, but allow me to share and/or repeat my thoughts and experiences please.

Bike fit is important as you know. Seat height can be a moving target in millimeters. In some cases the perfect height might be too much. Lowering the seat to accommodate bad knees or ankles can have an effect. I will say though, it's another trial and error process.

Pedals and shoes though are the typical culprit. You're mentioning cleats which brings to mind toe clips versus clipless pedals. I'm guessing that he is having the knee problems with new to him clipless pedals, yes?

Years ago I was doing Brevets. Those are unassisted rides for distances of 200Km, 300Km, 400Km, 600Km, and 1200Km such as the Boston-Montreal-Boston and Paris-Brest-Paris rides. We would ride straight through the nights, stopping to sleep and eat wherever we could. Look it up, fascinating stuff.

My point is doing those long rides I first started out using Look pedals with no rotation. As the foot moved through the pedal cycle the shoe would not rotate on the pedal at all. I always had a bit of pain doing longer rides but it wasn't until riding seven hours straight for 130 miles that I realized how much pain there was.

At that point I converted two of my bikes and shoes to Speedplay pedals because they allowed the foot to rotate on the pedal. I can honestly say that after that I never had the same knee pain. All my bicycles are now fitted with Speedplays.

The kinesiology of the pedaling foot and leg is such that the foot is in one position at the top of the stroke and rotates during the down stroke with the foot being in another position at the bottom of the stroke, only to change again on the upstroke. Effectively the ligaments and tendons attaching the lower leg to the knee and thigh are being stressed continually for the entire ride.

Assuming these details:

Distance 30 miles
Cadence 90 rpm
Speed 15 mph

Riding time = 2 hours

Cadence times 2 hours times 60 minutes per hour = number of complete strokes

90*120=10,800 completed strokes on each leg. Then multiply it by two to get the stress of the down stroke plus the upstroke. So 21,600 times the ligaments are stressed when the knee is rotating in various directions and the foot is staying in one position.

Stand behind and/or in front of someone on a bicycle and watch the angle of the knee during the complete rotation. It will be rotating in and out in line with the femur. Now look at the angle fo the foot between the heel and the toes. In a perfect situation the foot with loosely rotate with the change in angle of the knee and femur. If it's not rotating than consider where that stress is going.

Speedplay is not the only pedal system that allows rotation, check out the other manufacturers too. I also will state that not everyone uses pedals that allow rotation. Some people haven't had knee troubles with fixed pedals, that's great luck for them. There are also a gazillion user opinions about what pedal system is best or worse.

Regarding the toe clip pedals, I must say that I loved my old Record pedals with toe clips. I never had knee problems back then, younger and more supple perhaps, but I believe it's because there was a bit of sloop between the shoe cleats and pedals.

Riding style can be a factor here as well. If the rider has been a 'masher' who pushs big gears at a low cadence and is very strong, converting to a more fixed pedal system can be putting huge stresses on the tendons and ligaments.

Are you all familiar with pronation and suppination? We talk about this a lot in ski boot fit. When someone is standing flat footed and they bend forward at the knees you can see which way the knees turn and what the foot does on the floor. This is about the natural direction of rotation of the ankle joint. If they bend forward and the knees turn in and the foot goes flat at the arch of the foot then they are pronated. If the knee turns out and the arch opens up with the pressure going on the outside of the foot then they are suppinated. In skiing the knees are typically bent which determines the pressure on the bottom of the foot which is important when pushing down to edge the ski in a turn. I could go on and on about the dynamics of of skiing but allow me to say that it plays over to bicycling.

The angle of the foot to lower leg through the ankle can be influenced by pronation and suppination, thus affecting the lower leg to femur through the knee. In ski boots we adjust for this with form fitted foot beds. They are also used in bicycling shoes.

Ok, so this is probably far too much information. I will say that I don't know it all and others most likely will have different opinions, views, and experiences. My words only come from my own thirty adult years of riding, racing, and coaching. That doesn't mean I'm the authority, just that I have some knowledge.

Has any of this been helpful to you all? Just say the word and I'll post links with more details to study.

Enjoy,



Liz






MsLizVt screwed with this post 11-16-2008 at 01:19 PM
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:31 PM   #9067
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Just trying to be helpful ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy
Here's the dilemma: Moterbiker's left knee keeps blowing up on 25+ mile rides. Swelling and actual bruising. We've taken the bike in for a set up - seat height is fine, cleats were adjusted. Same occurrence next ride. He's switched back to toe-clips, but hasn't tried that out yet, as we are waiting for the knee to heal.

Any other ideas/culprits?

Hi,

Sorry if this is belaboring the issue but there is another side to this. What I didn't mention before is previous injuries. Sometimes physical problems like old football injuries, war wounds, and just plain aging of the joints can be aggravated. I've seen issues like chondromalacia , aka runner's knee, cause pain. I'll cut and paste from wikipedia.

Does any of this apply to Motorbiker?




Liz


Quote:

Chondromalacia patellae (also known as CMP, Patello-femoral Pain Syndrome, or Runner's Knee) is a term for a large and disparate group of medical conditions that can cause pain at the front of the knee. It is common in young adults, especially soccer players, cyclists, rowers, tennisballet dancers, horseback riders, and runners. Snowboarders are particularly prone to this injury, especially those specializing in jumps where the knees are under great stress. The condition may result from acute injury to the patella or from chronic friction between the patella and the groove in the femur through which it passes during motion of the knee[1]. CMP specifically refers to a knee that has been structurally damaged, while the more generic term Patello-femoral Pain Syndrome refers to the earlier stages of the condition, where symptoms are often fully reversible using treatments such as the RICE method (an acronym for Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation)[2], anti-inflammatory painkillers, physiotherapy and treatment of any underlying cause of the pain. It is often simply an overuse injury. players,

Causes

The term "chondromalacia" is a term left over from the 20th century. In the early 1900s investigators in Europe developed the theory that soft cartilage (the literal translation of chondro-malacia) is the cause of pain at the front of the knee. By the end of the 20th century, that theory had been discredited, [3] but health professionals continued to use the term to describe patients with pain at the front of the knee. The term is still used today, but with diminishing frequency. It is gradually being replaced by the term "patellofemoral syndrome", a term used by clinicians when they do not have a specific explanation for a patient's pain.
Possible causes include a tight iliotibial band, neuromas, bursitis, overuse, malalignment, core instability, to name but a few. The term chondromalacia can also be used to describe abnormal appearing cartilage (anywhere in the body)[4]. A radiologist might, for example, note chondromalacia on an MRI of an ankle. There is no one "cause" of chondromalacia. There are as many causes as there are conditions lumped under the term "chondromalacia"

Treatment

The treatment will depend on the specific source of a person's pain. Most sportspersons will use variations on the RICE method and anti-inflammatories, to rule out a simple overuse injury. If the pain is very severe or does not pass, they may consult a doctor. As noted above, "chondromalacia" and "patello femoral syndrome" are not diagnoses, as they do not help explain the source of pain. If pain is due to a tight iliotibial band, treatment will be focused on stretching of that band. If a person suffers from irritation of the infrapatellar branch of the saphenous nerve, treatment might consist of a small injection. If core stability is the issue, treatment might consist of physical therapy focused on the abdomen, pelvis and hips. If the condition is exacerbated by flat feet, these can be treated by orthotics.
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:05 PM   #9068
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my I Fab




I don't have a picture of my Fondriest road bike. This is my wife's stealth rig. It's a nice old school hand built steel frame that now sports some up grades such as Campy carbon fiber brake levers, new Shimano road pedals, a Terry saddle and a Ksyrium wheels set.



My son lovin life on his new, to him, Trek KDR1000. He loves putting in the miles.

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Old 11-16-2008, 02:09 PM   #9069
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You guys are bunch of bicycle snobs.
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:09 PM   #9070
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I'll also post a couple of images of a bike I had the chance to ride.


Yep, it's a belt drive. The ride and pedal response was amazing.



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Old 11-16-2008, 02:39 PM   #9071
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You need to spend less time up the street with Bruce at "Uno" and more time at the barbershop with that kid... geeez!

ha ha

RW
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:43 PM   #9072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gambrinus
You need to spend less time up the street with Bruce at "Uno" and more time at the barbershop with that kid... geeez!

ha ha

RW
did you see that Spot when Bruce had it?


and yes, the boy is far less shaggy looking today. Smart ass
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:07 PM   #9073
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Wow! Awesome. Belt drive.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:15 PM   #9074
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Quote:
You guys are bunch of bicycle snobs.
guilty
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:52 PM   #9075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubletrackmind
did you see that Spot when Bruce had it?


and yes, the boy is far less shaggy looking today. Smart ass

Ya, the Spot stuff is NICE.... You won't fine any crap sitting around at Bruce's shop.

RW
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