950 Supermoto Chronicles

[KHVol]

Originally Posted by samppa2005

This is a matter of taste. In my opinion a supermoto is supposed to go offroad as well. It's developed from an offroad bike to be more street capable. Not purely a street bike. I don't want a dirt bike but i do want my supermoto to be better offroad. The higher suspension would come into play if i wanted to turn my bike into a superenduro. So far i'm happy with my 17" wheels and the 210 mm suspension because i don't want a dirt bike. I just want to use the full potential of my supermoto which in my opinion includes the fact that i can take her offroading as well. If i wanted a big dirtbike i'd get an SE or an ADV. If i wanted a streetbike i'd get a superduke.
So the same question could be asked of you. If you want a pure streetbike why not get a superduke? I'm not asking though
The fact is that i really like my SM and i just want to adjust it to my needs. Sure i could get an ADV as well but i just don't WANT to get one
My SM started out being a street bike and it was fun for a year or two. The local roads got boring so i wanted to expand my routes to the gravel roads. So i did some tinkering and i can do it with my trusted warhorse. The fantastic thing about the SM is that it sits fairly in the middle of the road-dirt axis. If i want to ride more street oriented i can make some adjustments and go for a track day. If i want to take it offroading i can do some tinkering and off i go again. It's the versatility that's appealing. The simplest conversion is to just change the tires from knobbies to road/track tires and adjusting the shocks.
Could be that the day comes when i want to explore the possibility of the 265 mm suspension as well and still i could (possibly) do it with my SM. But not yet
Also in the end it could just be that i can and i like to tinker with my bikes

Superduke doesn't interest me at all, no more than a CBR ( althought I have owned several) .

I understand that a lot of the fun of owning a motorcycle is personalizing it, seeing just what it can and can't do and I think there is always the quest to find that one bike that can do it all. But..there isn't one.

I have been into true SM's for many years and have had the opportunity explore what they are good at and what they are not good at. Although we can make them a little bit better in the dirt, they are never good handling in the dirt, particularly a relatively heavy "dirtbike" that the 950 SM would be. I've ridden SM's over 12,000 ft Colorado passes, White Rim and Schaffer trails in Moab and although I / we did it, I wouldn't describe it as a dirtbike experience, even though it was in the dirt. It was a lot of unnecesary work. You can take an R-1 in the dirt but that doesn't make it a dirt bike.

All in all, you are obviously really enjoying your 950 SM, great to read about. They are terrific bikes and I do enoy reading about what you are doing.

[snowhawk jockey]

As much crazy stuff as I do with/to/on the SM, it boils down to one thing for me: It is an all road bike, not an off road bike. I don't go out to trail or trials ride it, unless the road has some sections, that need that sort of technique. I much prefer the faster roads, the SM is good at, rough pavement and smooth gravel. I have found that the machine doesn't shrink from any challenge, though, like butter smooth pavement or dirty, rocky, rutted out roads, climbs, washouts, etc.

The other angle is that I had ridden 950A and 990A bikes for several years and knew that I wanted the lower slung, more aggressive handling, SM. It's the same with little bikes, as I dual-sported my EXC with 17's more than knobbies. The offroad ability of a 21" front and its slicing action is unmistakeable, however the 21" doesnt drift as easily as a 19/17, so I find myself setting up a machine with the smaller sizes.


In case there are any other riders that need to know:

The Alcan 5000 runs for 14 days, Seattle to Anchorage, in August of 2014 and should be a perfect rally for the SM in long distance trim(a small wind splitter, electric vest pigtail and 1.5gallon aux tank on left side where exhaust can hung). Don't tell anyone I told ya's... www.alcan5000.com
I am putting together a team of riders/drivers and hope to see some of youse on the ride!

[BuckMoto]

Originally Posted by KHVol

I really don't understand why those of you who want dirt tires and dirt suspension didn't just buy an Adventure ? The SM is a street bike, meant to be so. For all you do to make it more dirt worthy, you subtract from it's street performance.

For me, the 2007 SMR is the best of all the big Katooms for several reasons. Because it was derived directly from the dirt models for street prowess, it trumps the others on pavement with its better front brakes and sport bike wheels and sporty handling. Although it gives up some dirt capability because of these changes, it does not give up too much (imho). It's not like you would ever be able to do everything you can do on an all-out specialized lightweight dirt bike on any of these big bikes.

On a more shallow level, I have never liked the looks of the adventure bikes. A dirt bike that even remotely resembles a Goldwing just seems wrong to me. I considered a new old stock SE very briefly at the time I got my used SMR, but at $12k + the cost for new cans that would not burn me + higher insurance and tags, I did not consider it long. I also wanted a bike that I could learn corner carving on (I just need some corners!).

Maybe the most shallow reason of all, I love the way this bike looks! To me, the 2007 SMR is one of the best looking bikes ever. She's hot! Putting knobbies on her is like fish net stockings... mmm. I have been considering getting a 2nd set of wheels with brakes so I can simply swap out tires and c/s sprockets for an instant transformation between street and dirt.

[snowhawk jockey]

Originally Posted by BuckMoto

She's hot! Putting knobbies on her is like like fish net stockings... mmm. I have been considering getting a 2nd set of wheels with brakes so I can simply swap out tires and c/s sprockets for an instant transformation between street and dirt.

In the end... She's hotter in knobs and dust, than slicks and frame sliders!

[corndog67]

You've got to remember, the Supermoto in 950 Supermoto, is just a catchy label, these are not real Supermotos. Try a KTM 525 or YZ450F that's been made into a Supermoto. The 950 Supermoto is, in my opinion, a serious street weapon. A bike that is real hard to keep up with if you are chasing one down some twisty road.

They are never going to to work really well in the dirt, maybe just acceptably, but not really great.

Originally Posted by snowhawk jockey

In the end... She's hotter in knobs and dust, than slicks and frame sliders!

I don't agree with that at all. You've lost half your braking, and most of your street grip. Like I said, these bikes are absolute rockets on the street.

[samppa2005]

Originally Posted by snowhawk jockey

In the end... She's hotter in knobs and dust, than slicks and frame sliders!

Dirty girls are a load of fun If you think of the road-dirt capabilities as a bell curve (gaussian curve) the SM capability peaks in the middle. You can do just about anything but the further you go from the peak the less capable it is. The beautiful thing about modern bikes is that they are like hobby building block sets. If you decide that you want a more dirt oriented bike you can start stealing parts from an SE and keep swapping parts until you are happy. You can build your own compromise. If you want a more road oriented bike look into SD direction and start stealing bits. Most things go on just by bolting them on. That way you can move the peak.
If i was a hard core enduro rider i'd be disappointed riding the SM offroad the same way if i was a road racer i'd be disappointed riding it on track. But i'm in the middle and i'm having fun everywhere i decide to take her Initially i didn't have the confidence on dirt but with a few minor adjustments i'm having tons of fun on dirt. Swapping back to road tires i'm back to dragging pegs on road. Nothing lost or compromised. Just expanding and adjusting.

And yes i love the way my warhorse looks

[samppa2005]

Originally Posted by corndog67

You've got to remember, the Supermoto in 950 Supermoto, is just a catchy label, these are not real Supermotos. Try a KTM 525 or YZ450F that's been made into a Supermoto. The 950 Supermoto is, in my opinion, a serious street weapon. A bike that is real hard to keep up with if you are chasing one down some twisty road.

They are never going to to work really well in the dirt, maybe just acceptably, but not really great.

I think the 950 supermoto is a supermoto just as an Adventure is an enduro. It's not a hard core racer but it's still capable. A 525 and a 950 are two completely differently biased bikes but they still are essentially supermotos.

I don't need it to be great on dirt i want to have confidence in it. If i have confidence in the bike i'm having fun with it. That's the essence of it. Yes could be that i'm like the tugboat captain who turns his cap around when going full throttle but i'm having FUN doing it and i'm feeling confident. Isn't that what it's all about?
It's not necessarily going to be great on dirt but what's to stop it from being good on dirt? The suspension is very similar to a regular ADV, the chasis is marginally different so why not? Yes the wheels are 17" but i can live with that and if not i can get a second set with 19/17. Nobody has so far managed to explain to me why it couldn't be good on dirt?

Originally Posted by corndog67

I don't agree with that at all. You've lost half your braking, and most of your street grip. Like I said, these bikes are absolute rockets on the street.

That's the beauty of it! Swap back to street tires and you're good to go again!

[nattyMo]

To answer your question, the SM/R and Super Duke use the same fork. The SE and Advenvture forks are close to each other in spec but the Adv has dual disks mounts. As far as I've seen you won't be easily able to go to the 265mm travel setup with out using either an SE or ADV fork. The offset on the triple clamps is also different across all 4 models.

As for dirt use, the issues I see keeping the SM from being as good as an SE or ADV are as follows:

1. Supension, it is set up firm for higher speed/smooth surface performance thus the spring and dampening rates are fairly harsh.
2. The exhaust, oil tank and oil lines are unprotected. The lower exhaust is prone to rock damage.
3. Wheels... you've touched on. 19/17 or 21/17 with spokes clearly offer advantages off road
4. Steering geometry, setup for very quick turn in, it doesn't offer as much self centering as either the SE or ADV


All of these can be addressed if you so desire, but not cheaply.

Hope that helps, glad to read how much you're enjoying your SM.

NM

[wpbarlow]

Nothing special-- just want to post this pic




Good to see the discussion on the bike. I'm firmly in the pavement camp right now. But having an SE and an Adventure in the shed helps with that decision. However-- I do have the honorable dented exhaust header and dirt-rashed fairings as evidence that I didn't always feel that way

[BuckMoto]

Originally Posted by wpbarlow

Nothing special-- just want to post this pic




Good to see the discussion on the bike. I'm firmly in the pavement camp right now. But having an SE and an Adventure in the shed helps with that decision. However-- I do have the honorable dented exhaust header and dirt-rashed fairings as evidence that I didn't always feel that way

Cool pic! Maybe you need an RC-8 too to fill in the gap of your weapon collection!!

I've put up another video that really isn't about pavement or dirt (even though it's on a dirt road ), but just enjoying a beautiful road all to yourself and your hooligan instincts! I've titled it "Speak Softly and Ride a Big KTM" in a nod to earlier posts with goodcat8. We miss you and your supermoto pics!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjWtEylE_TU

I'll have the rest of my 'Gray Skies' series up this weekend if anyone is interested.

[Garry]

Dumb question: my clutch interlock is F'd up or dirty as the bike won't start in gear. Can someone explain EXACTLY where it is and how to replace it or clean it? Details please.

[wpbarlow]

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bant...re/#more-36489



Real nice video Buck!

[wpbarlow]

Originally Posted by Garry

Dumb question: my clutch interlock is F'd up or dirty as the bike won't start in gear. Can someone explain EXACTLY where it is and how to replace it or clean it? Details please.

I believe it's part 19. Don't know exactly where it is, but at least you know what it might look like.

[preppypyro]

Originally Posted by KHVol

I really don't understand why those of you who want dirt tires and dirt suspension didn't just buy an Adventure ? The SM is a street bike, meant to be so. For all you do to make it more dirt worthy, you subtract from it's street performance.

Price. I bought my 950 sm for 4500 bucks, which is half or less then half the price of a super enduro up here.

Im sure I could turn my bike into the same thing as an SE if I wanted for 5 grand!

Wont cost me that though and ill have a bike thats the next best thing, skid plate, tires, and moving the pipes up high are really everything that I personally need to make this SM into the perfect bike for my needs, and will meet or exceed what an adv or se can do for my needs. (specially for the price!)

Still a hell of alot cheaper then an se or and adv!

One day id like to get an SE though dont get me wrong, they are pretty badass!

[samppa2005]

Originally Posted by nattyMo

To answer your question, the SM/R and Super Duke use the same fork. The SE and Advenvture forks are close to each other in spec but the Adv has dual disks mounts. As far as I've seen you won't be easily able to go to the 265mm travel setup with out using either an SE or ADV fork. The offset on the triple clamps is also different across all 4 models.

As for dirt use, the issues I see keeping the SM from being as good as an SE or ADV are as follows:

1. Supension, it is set up firm for higher speed/smooth surface performance thus the spring and dampening rates are fairly harsh.
2. The exhaust, oil tank and oil lines are unprotected. The lower exhaust is prone to rock damage.
3. Wheels... you've touched on. 19/17 or 21/17 with spokes clearly offer advantages off road
4. Steering geometry, setup for very quick turn in, it doesn't offer as much self centering as either the SE or ADV


All of these can be addressed if you so desire, but not cheaply.

Hope that helps, glad to read how much you're enjoying your SM.

NM

Yes those are all known and valid points but the question is will they prevent the SM from being good offroad?
It's not necessarily even that expencive to take care of most of the problems.
1. suspension has already a surprisingly big adjustable area. It can also easily and relatively cheaply be revalved. The WP suspension is really good and responds to adjustments amazingly well.
2. nothing a skidplate wouldn't protect. 200€ from sw-motech.Or get adv headers not that expencive either.
3. Yes this is expencive. But if you have a steering damper and a 17" i'm thinking it would work?
4. the question is how much will this matter? small differences can be met by adjusting the riding technique. If it's too quick to turn in it's possible to slide the rear more which is easy with the SM

It won't be an SE without extencive rebuilds but i'm thinking it can still be good offroad even without being an SE. The biggest issue is the tires which can be expencive to solve. So far for me it's good offroad even with the 17" TKC80, adjusted compression damping and a high header from an adv. All done with a budget of under 500€.

Dual disc mounts? Do you mean break disks? It's the internals that i'm curious about. Would the kit fit? Not going to do it i'm just curious...some sort of an obsesstion to plan weird things.

Taking the SM offroad can be debated to no end. I'm just having a hard time understanding why people keep underestimating the SM offroad capabilities? I'm willing to say it's more dirt capable then some of the dual-sport/allroad/adventure bikes advertised as being able to do anything. Out of the bikes with 17" wheels i'd be willing to say it's the most capable. It's capable as is, ok with minor adjustments, good with more extensive modifications and maybe great by turning it into an SE?