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Old 12-03-2007, 09:21 AM   #2341
buffallodan OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoder
I'm still interested in all the info that comes this way about the damper set up but I'm not buying it about too much stress with a longer arm until someone (or maybe myself) proves me wrong. The arm would have to be custom anyway and could be beefed up. The stress on the tank bolt tower would be minimized by the tank itself and the pin washer spreading the load.
Hoder it's not that the leverage would risk bending the arm; the problem would be the internal hydrolics, the ability of the damper to function would be altered. My guess is if one used an arm long enough to reach the bolt you would nearly decrease the damping effect by 30-50%. I spoke to Scotts in great detail and he assured me it would be problematic...
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:44 AM   #2342
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Originally Posted by Hoder
That's a great idea Dan! Now that you mention it I'm surprised no one's come up with those. I think you'd have to use separate spacers though. In order to flip a single part you'd have to pull the axle. Besides, spacers would allow you to use 14, 15 & 16 fronts, leaving the adjusters set. I'm thinking an L-shaped spacer with the main chain adjuster machined out in the back to lock it in. The adjusters are 2 different part numbers with one being machined for clearance of the nut on the right side but I don't see any reason why they couldn't be the same part. The tolerance on the nut side is way too much & the welded wire on the left end of the axle is either just a safety catch or useless. What are your thoughts? I'll try to take some dims on the CS & adjusters tomorrow. I haven't tried this, but can you swap the cs without breaking the chain (assuming the adjuster is left alone)?
IIRC When you swap from the 16T to the 15T I think there is enough clearance, but going the other way you have to screw in the adjusters. I never broke my chain I just loosened the axle and screwed in the adjusters, place CS and then adjusted chain to sag...
My first thought was to make a flippable piece but didn't think about pulling the axle. If we removed the pull arm(if it is used just to pull axle and not for safety) that design would work without removing the axle. The other idea I had was to make a spacer that would in effect be a cap for the adjuster. It would be machined to fit over the hex head of the adjuster if there is enough clearance.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:54 AM   #2343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockchucker22
Thanks Dan! On the tower pin subject would it be possible to run a damper backwards so the tower pin came up in front of the steering tube? The principle would be the same effect on steering??? Or am I just nutts?
Scotts makes a Topmount but it is designed to work with their Tower Pin. I think all of thier tower pins face the tank. Hence most Clamps are design to center the Damper facing rearward. This determines bar offset as well so keep that in mind. It also allows for reach to adjusters on the damper. I think there may be Clamps designed to face forward but you run into clearance issues with the Computer. There is a low mount option that could work but it would be hard to reach the adjusters so I didn't research it very well.

Scotts website shows this to work on the Husky. Might be worth a call for you guys.

Dan
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:41 AM   #2344
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Here is the preliminary sketch showing sprocket and chain allowances. Using CAD I think I can get the numbers we need but want to check this against real world measurements. I will have some numbers tonight...




Corrected sketch


Dan

buffallodan screwed with this post 12-03-2007 at 10:38 PM Reason: Corrected sketch
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:14 PM   #2345
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Dan, do you realize you just proved a longer arm will work fine? Somebody at Scotts is talking .

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffallodan
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:53 PM   #2346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffallodan
The other idea I had was to make a spacer that would in effect be a cap for the adjuster.
I was thinking of putting it on the other side. You could adjust for your smallest CS then loosen the wheel, swap the CS & pop in a shim for either 1 or 2 teeth over without touching the adjusters. Do you think this would work?
Edit: Oops, I meant adjust for your largest CS & shim as you go smaller.

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Hoder screwed with this post 12-03-2007 at 01:08 PM
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Old 12-03-2007, 01:11 PM   #2347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoder
Dan, do you realize you just proved a longer arm will work fine? Somebody at Scotts is talking .
I was thinking the same thing
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:23 PM   #2348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoder
Dan, do you realize you just proved a longer arm will work fine? Somebody at Scotts is talking .
Hoder that arm is reversed so it is likely the same length or just a little longer. The Damper comes with a Standard length and they have a +15mm as an optional arm length on their parts list. If the Husky Tank bolt location was 15mm longer I would agree it might be possible but looking at this picture and recalling the measurements I took before I think one would be risking it...


Dan

p.s.
If you guys want to try using a longer Arm I think Colin at Stenhouse Racing would be willing to mill you a custom Arm.
Scotts is not going to have one that long. It should be pretty straight forward for Colin to make a tank bolt that would
work as a Tower Pin as well. I personally would go the route of fabricating something like in the picture above, but come
up with a solution to make it more stable to handle the torque that will be placed on it. For instance I just thought
of an idea..."drawing would be so much easier "
I can't describe it, I will have to draw it, but it could very well be a solution we have looking for to make the piece above better...when I get in from Poker tonight I will post the sketch...

buffallodan screwed with this post 12-03-2007 at 03:34 PM
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:17 PM   #2349
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more steering damper talk....grooooaaaaan....





..


just kidding!


Hey Dan, you might try replacing your fork oil with 5, or even 2.5 wt., starting on the low level side then bumping it up 10 to 20 ccs (per leg) at a time until you get the bottoming resistance you want. Don't forget, with thinner oil you will need to turn your rebound adjuster in somewhat, and maybe the comp too depending on what you are after.

Tuning with oil is nice because it allows you to alter damping characteristics that are otherwise not accessable without messing with the shim stacks/valving.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:06 PM   #2350
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Man each time I think about this I see a new angle.
Why does it matter where the Arm is terminated? Does the leverage actually change depending on how long the Dampers Arm is? I am not so sure now...On the one hand I understand that a longer lever applies more force but I may be mistaken in this instance as to where the force is actually applied. I may be wrong in thinking the force is applied from the Arm. If the arm extended to the Tank Bolt, would it make a difference?...Anyone a Structural or Mechanical Engineer?
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:24 PM   #2351
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Was just about to write how right I thought HODER was about the xtended arm damper. Because a long arm that pivots on a fixed piont is in the same arm no matter what place on that arm you grab. But then I thought well why does a breaker bar turn a lugnut easier than a ratchet. . . . . . . and now my brain hurts..

But his chain adjstr. shims are brilliant

but if the damper lever does'nt pivot exactly above the center of the
steering tube the longer lever will definetly not work. Because now
you have two pivot points on two independant objects instead of one
pivot and one fixed point.

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Old 12-03-2007, 10:04 PM   #2352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aw te610
Was just about to write how right I thought HODER was about the xtended arm damper. Because a long arm that pivots on a fixed piont is in the same arm no matter what place on that arm you grab. But then I thought well why does a breaker bar turn a lugnut easier than a ratchet. . . . . . . and now my brain hurts..

But his chain adjstr. shims are brilliant

but if the damper lever does'nt pivot exactly above the center of the
steering tube the longer lever will definetly not work. Because now
you have two pivot points on two independant objects instead of one
pivot and one fixed point.
You think yours hurts, I can't figure out how long a 114 length chain is b/c I don't know if I am supposed to count all links by 5/8" or 113?

Dan

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Old 12-03-2007, 10:17 PM   #2353
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Crankshaft

Saw some BMW pics in your gallery. Did you know that BMW now owns Husqvarna as of july 07'.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:37 PM   #2354
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So here is corrected sketch.

5/8" Chain at 114 Links = 71-1/4"
Diameters of 45T(8-1/2") and 15T(2-5/8")
Need to measure 14T and 16T and then will have the numbers we need...




Dan
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:35 AM   #2355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffallodan
Man each time I think about this I see a new angle.
Why does it matter where the Arm is terminated? Does the leverage actually change depending on how long the Dampers Arm is? I am not so sure now...On the one hand I understand that a longer lever applies more force but I may be mistaken in this instance as to where the force is actually applied. I may be wrong in thinking the force is applied from the Arm. If the arm extended to the Tank Bolt, would it make a difference?...Anyone a Structural or Mechanical Engineer?
I feel terribly pedestrian for taking a crack at this since I'm not familiar with the system. That being said...

I think it comes down to which part (system) is passive and which one is active. I'm guessing there is a pin at the end of the bar that mates to the damping assembly. This pin is passive and the arm is just a means of mounting the pin rigid. The most important criteria for this pin is to stay as rigid and static as possible to resist the influence of the active damping assembly mounted to the handlebars. The longer the [pin] bar, the greater the leverage and so the greater the influence the damping assembly has on it. Or restated, the longer the bar the more it flexes and the more the (passive) pin moves relative to the (active) damping assembly. This flex reduces the performance by a percentage.

Sorry if I wasted your time with this, slow start today at work.
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