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Old 09-29-2008, 11:26 PM   #7861
Svart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countdown
With a new chain on a worn sprocket, it doesnt matter because the maximum force is always the same and it is on every link that is in tension.
But a new chain on a worn sprocket will make the chain link climb and/or slide on the sprocket teeth (since the gap between the teeth is a little too big), rapidly ruining the chain. Or am I wrong?
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:17 AM   #7862
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gidday ive just had my first service on my 08 te610 ive got the same pipe fitted as cautiousbob same colour to and i just had my O2 sensor removed and computer remapped now it runs clean no popping on decelerating anymore as it was doing with only the pipe fitted goes harder as well .I put a set of 17inch wheels for the road and a41 rear sprocket im happy as a pig in s%%t
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:28 AM   #7863
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i forgot to mention that i made sure i orderd a cush drive rear wheel cost another $300 but i thought its cheap in the long run i got nervous after readin about the c/s sprocket dramas some of you fellas are having
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:54 AM   #7864
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hello ocd...

do you now have no popping at all when decelerating? mine does, but not all the time though, only sometimes. is your rear left indicator holding up ok? mine has melted a little bit.
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:41 AM   #7865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countdown
I think you have both backwards. The stress on the sprocket/countershaft is from each engine power strokes. Nothing to do with motor on/off, that is so slow it has no shock.

With chain/sprocket the worst is an old chain on a new sprocket. Because the worn chain has a longer pitch, it puts all the load on one tooth at a time instead of distributing it over several teeth. With a new chain on a worn sprocket, it doesnt matter because the maximum force is always the same and it is on every link that is in tension.
I see your theory on the shaft, but not sure I agree. I'd think hard throttle changes, dumping the clutch, rear wheel breaking, etc. put far more stress on the shaft/sprocket union than engine pulses. Otherwise why would we have cush hubs for street bikes that have pronounced rear wheel hookup? Maybe they both contribute. Regardless, I think the slop is bad stuff.
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:14 AM   #7866
Factory Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocd
i forgot to mention that i made sure i orderd a cush drive rear wheel cost another $300 but i thought its cheap in the long run i got nervous after readin about the c/s sprocket dramas some of you fellas are having
Do you have the part number(s) for this??

Thanks
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:18 AM   #7867
Countdown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svart
But a new chain on a worn sprocket will make the chain link climb and/or slide on the sprocket teeth (since the gap between the teeth is a little too big), rapidly ruining the chain. Or am I wrong?
Yes "gap" is pitch. If the chain is longer than the sprocket, there is more force on the bushing that is rotating which would cause more wear.

So the question is: does the chain move out or in as the sprocket wears. I think that a new chain wont move up because the "shorter" chain will transfer force clear to the back of the sprocket. A worn chain will climb up the "last" tooth until force is applied to the next tooth and so on. This puts more force on the top of the last few teeth and moves the wear higher on the tooth.

I think this is why some sprockets wear the teeth very low and end up with cups at the bottom of each tooth (new chain) and some sprockets wear the top of the teeth and and allow the chain to jump (worn chain).
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Countdown screwed with this post 09-30-2008 at 09:45 AM
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:44 AM   #7868
Countdown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkartoom
I see your theory on the shaft, but not sure I agree. I'd think hard throttle changes, dumping the clutch, rear wheel breaking, etc. put far more stress on the shaft/sprocket union than engine pulses. Otherwise why would we have cush hubs for street bikes that have pronounced rear wheel hookup? Maybe they both contribute. Regardless, I think the slop is bad stuff.
I am sure that hammering causes far more wear than constant force on a spline. Yes dumping the clutch causes more force (for a very short time)because the flywheel adds stored energy. This increased force is what breaks transmision teeth, chains, and will strip a spline gut does not cause weare because the time is so short. The problem with the spline on the countershaft is that it is the smallest diameter moveable joint in the power train and it is at highest torque location except the rear sprocket. This results in the highest force at a moveable joint in the power train.

Think about this; every time the piston starts up on compression, the wheel is driving the engine, then on every power stroke, the force reverses and the engine drives the wheel with a big hammer on the spline. The fly wheel tends to dapen out this hammering but it only reduces it. To illustrate this effect, accelerate a big single on damp soil and you can see a spot where the tire spins (3-4" dark spot every 8-12") during every power stroke of the engine then it hooks up until the next cycle.

This is why vehicles with fewer cycinders always have more traction than the same vehicle with more cylilnders. This is why the road racing 4's went to the big bang configuration and why many road racing V8's fire two cylinders at once and are actually 4's.
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:33 AM   #7869
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countdown
Think about this; every time the piston starts up on compression, the wheel is driving the engine, then on every power stroke, the force reverses and the engine drives the wheel with a big hammer on the spline. The fly wheel tends to dapen out this hammering but it only reduces it. To illustrate this effect, accelerate a big single on damp soil and you can see a spot where the tire spins (3-4" dark spot every 8-12") during every power stroke of the engine then it hooks up until the next cycle.
what ever your smoking.. I'll have some!

you forget to mention what those heavy weights attached to the crankshaft do and

according to your analysis, if I remove the wheel my engine will no longer run?? what will drive the engine without the wheel?
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:45 AM   #7870
greenlizard
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The big-bang vs multi-cylinder traction thing has been known for at least 40 years. My first roundy-round dirt tracker was a 1967 Suzuki X6 with the crank throws repositioned into a twingle arrangement. It had less peak power but much better traction. I've never seen a trashed countershaft that was confirmed to be caused by engine configuration, though. I'd bet on the chain too tight theory. Mine is fairly loose and will stay that way. If any play develops I'll first replace the sprocket then if necessary replace the shaft. All bikes have issues. Just ride it.
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:50 PM   #7871
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I don't think the motor pounding has anything to do with this, especially since we're seeing it on some low mile bikes and the cush drive is between the crank and the output shaft.
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:53 PM   #7872
North
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I was just wondering who has changed their 610 enduro sprockets. And what did you changed to.

I was thinking of going to 14 by 48. I want more low end grunt for off road.

Thanks

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Old 09-30-2008, 11:27 PM   #7873
ramz
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Check it out: http://rickramsey.net/TE610mods.htm#rearsprocket
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:41 AM   #7874
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gidday bob there is no popping at all now with the O2 sensor connected the bike runs too lean with the pipe the mod can be done by your dealer as he has the program you must alter before you remove the sensor with genuine parts the mod lets the ecu go into competition mode i will have to check the blinker get back to u on that one
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:52 AM   #7875
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about the c/s sprocket theorys KTMs ive owned and known with PDS rear suspension tend to leak around the c/s sprocket shaft seal if the chain is not letf a lot looser than most other makes of bike ive had what im getting at is a tite chain can affect parts that u dont expect it to after i started running my chain what looked very loose i never had this problem again
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