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Old 02-22-2014, 11:07 AM   #1
rens OP
F650gs, r90s, London UK
 
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The Horror / what to look for in an oilhead (RT)

Hey All-

I have recently had some bad luck and some good luck. And I could use some
advice from this group.

The bad luck is that someone nicked my F650GS from in front of my
house, and I fear its either in eastern Europe or in pieces by now. This
cloud has a silver lining of course, hence my posting here in the oilheads
forum. The good news is that I just returned from a week on a rented
R1200RT through spain and portugal, and I am hooked.

So having reviewed what passes for insurance, the bank account, and whether
I'm willing to leave my R90S parked on the street for more than 30 minutes
in central London (NOT) I seem to be narrowing in on either a 99/00 R1100RT
or a 94 R1150RT. Leaning more toward the 1100 because I like simple and also
like to use the rear brake to control speed in a turn without high siding.


I've read what I can about these bikes (and ridden a few off and on over the
years) but some of the information is hard to parse, so a few questions for you
oilhead gurus:

- Do the UK 1100 models experience the surging that plagues the north
american models, or is that really down to the US emissions control and
fuel map?
- Any bright ideas to determine, without disassembly, whether the spline is
in good shape/likely to die? I see a lot of bikes for sale around 55k miles
and I understand that is the danger zone.
- Anything else I should be aware of but probably am not, as all my
spannering experience has been on thumpers and airheads?

Any advice greatly appreciated

Rens
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:07 PM   #2
Snapping Twig
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If you rode a 1200RT and you liked it, why not look for a 1200?
They are lighter and have more power, handle better too.

I ride an R1200R, 2012 model and it is a far different bike than the 1150 version.

As to the surging, check into a booster plug or similar product. AFAIK, all emissions standards wherever you go are lean and unrealistic. A booster plug device is plug and play and does what it claims with no downside - other than cost.

Good luck whatever you choose.
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:04 AM   #3
rens OP
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Quote:
If you rode a 1200RT and you liked it, why not look for a 1200?
They are lighter and have more power, handle better too.
Sadly, if I put a shiny new bike in front of the house its likely to disappear,
so it will be a 10+ year old bike. Also, I think the 1200RT fairing is ugly.

Anyway; any brits with 1100s care to opine on the surging question? The only
1100 I ever rode was in the states and it did indeed surge.

Rens
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:19 AM   #4
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My 94 R1100RSL has the Teclusion device which allows you to tune the fuel mapping, works great and no surging.

Of course I'm in the U.S. and can't help you with the Europe specs. The surging issue is certainly fixable and not a deal breaker. I've had the 1200 also and the 1100 when properly set up is just as much fun IMHO.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:59 AM   #5
rens OP
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Just giving this a bump: no oilheads in the UK able to address the surgin or not of bikes over here?
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:04 AM   #6
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The surging does afflict UK bikes too.

Speak to Neil (posts here and other forums as Steptoe):

http://www.gsshop.biz/

He's in SW15. What he doesn't now about BM's isn't worth knowing.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:33 AM   #7
XtreemLEE
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They are both bad choices, the 99-00 RT's surged and the 1150's surged less, anyone who tells you different is either oblivious or an apolagist...

They had a poor design, open loop fuel injection with ONE O2 sensor reading the exhaust, at certian RPM's they are always hunting for the correct fueling.

My 2000 taught me a lot, in order to make it run correctly I removed the 50 state emissions and coding. Learned how to lash valves and synch throttle bodies. I have strong feeling for what BMW put a lot of us oilhead owners through and all they said it "characteristic". What they meant to say but wouldnt stand behind thier mistake was it is a "design flaw". I would get an airhead over an 1100 or 1150 oilhead anyday. I spent about $2000 putting aftermarket ehaust (to pull the O2 sensor), and tools to learn how to "tune" it. What a pain. Other than that it was a good bike.

Oh and the teclusion device did not cure surging... Only pulling the O2 sensor and learning to lash valves carefully and balance throttle bodies helped, but did not cure... There is no cure...

Not sure if the UK models had an O2 sensor if they did you are screwed, if they didn't you are less screwed...


Oh and checking the splines entails breaking the bike in half! Seriuosly u halve it in order to check/grease the splines.

Get a Honda ST1300, oh and I sold my 2000 RTSE with a Unigo trailer back in 2004 for $7000USD, you should pay more than 4K USD...
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XtreemLEE screwed with this post 02-24-2014 at 03:58 AM Reason: Realized the OP was a Brit
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeper View Post
My 94 R1100RSL has the Teclusion device which allows you to tune the fuel mapping, works great and no surging.

Of course I'm in the U.S. and can't help you with the Europe specs. The surging issue is certainly fixable and not a deal breaker. I've had the 1200 also and the 1100 when properly set up is just as much fun IMHO.

The surging issue is NOT fixable, it is a built in design flaw...

People who want to believe that the money they spent to fix an unfixable problem amaze me. Changing the fuel map has no affect on the open loop O2 to Independent throttle bodies actuated by wire cables running around the engine getting exposed to different heat variences. Not to mention that the 1100 and 1150 oilheads are EXTREMELY sensative to valve lash tolerances. No amout of "fattening" the mixture is going to solve that...

I BET MY LIFE AGAINST YOURS, YOUR 1100 STILL SURGES
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtreemLEE View Post

I BET MY LIFE AGAINST YOURS, YOUR 1100 STILL SURGES
You're more than welcome to come take a ride on it, and prove yourself wrong.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:29 AM   #10
Jaqen H'ghar
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You're more than welcome to come take a ride on it, and prove yourself wrong.
But if he's wrong, then he dies, right?
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:32 AM   #11
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My 1150 GSA surged when new, not terribly and no worse than any other FI bike I have owned.

Adding a PCIII pretty much solved it because it moved the target closed loop A/F target ratio which is what caused the surging. BMW is not alone in this, lots of bikes surge in closed loop mode, so calling it a "design flaw" is overstating the issue. Why do you think the first thing on any modification thread (of any bike) is adding some sort of enrichment device? For that matter, most carbed bikes surge as well - it is lean jetting to meet emission requirements and a jet kit is required to solve it.

There is a great thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749080 on the issue, what is happening and how to solve it.

From that thread, this one came along: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901788 which has a cheaper (and better, IMO) fix than the PCIII.
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:07 PM   #12
XtreemLEE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
My 1150 GSA surged when new, not terribly and no worse than any other FI bike I have owned.

Adding a PCIII pretty much solved it because it moved the target closed loop A/F target ratio which is what caused the surging. BMW is not alone in this, lots of bikes surge in closed loop mode, so calling it a "design flaw" is overstating the issue. Why do you think the first thing on any modification thread (of any bike) is adding some sort of enrichment device? For that matter, most carbed bikes surge as well - it is lean jetting to meet emission requirements and a jet kit is required to solve it.

There is a great thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749080 on the issue, what is happening and how to solve it.

From that thread, this one came along: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901788 which has a cheaper (and better, IMO) fix than the PCIII.
Wrong...
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:07 PM   #13
XtreemLEE
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Originally Posted by Jaqen H'ghar View Post
But if he's wrong, then he dies, right?
Yep...
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:58 PM   #14
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Get a 1100 or 1150. Gearing sucks on the 1200. Wish I would have kept mine
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:05 PM   #15
Mr. Canoehead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtreemLEE View Post
Wrong...

Yeah, you got me - it never surged!
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