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Old 05-26-2003, 02:10 PM   #16
Oscar
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Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said wxwax:
Oscar, nice rant by Fred, but he has Annika all wrong. It sounds nice to generalize about why people do things, but when you get down to specifics, life is very different.
I agree.
I've nothing against Annika, she has guts and I really hope she tries again.

What gets me is the hypocrisy of the media. They built this thing up as a battle of the sexes (and it really galls me that every news item had to refer to the Billy Jean King v. Bobby Riggs tennis match), knowing that the best Sorenstam could do was loose after 4 rounds as opposed to 2.

Taken in context with the Augsta National fuss, the underlying sentiment from some women is; we get to keep our stuff, but we can play with yours as well...
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Old 05-26-2003, 07:39 PM   #17
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Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said Oscar:
the underlying sentiment from some women is; we get to keep our stuff, but we can play with yours as well...
I didn't realize this was a NEW sentiment
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Old 05-26-2003, 07:43 PM   #18
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

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Said ROGUE:
I didn't realize this was a NEW sentiment
It is with sport.
Nuttin' new with marriage...
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Old 05-26-2003, 07:48 PM   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said Oscar:
It is with sport.
Nuttin' new with marriage...
So that's why you guys watch sports, I get it now.... your all testosterone area is being contaminated with estrogen
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Old 05-26-2003, 07:58 PM   #20
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

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Said ROGUE:
So that's why you guys watch sports, I get it now.... your all testosterone area is being contaminated with estrogen
I'm with Jerry Seinfeld on this one. He said that every man considers himself a low level superhero - when boys read comics; superman, spiderman etc, it's not entertainment, they're looking into career choices...

Similarly, when we watch Tiger Woods or Ronaldo or Michael Schumacher or Rossi on TV, we know that if'n we really wanted too, we could do that. You often hear men saying this as you watch TV....I could do that....

It's just we got other things on our plate right now, we're busy wid other stuff. So Tiger and Valentino and the rest, they're just keeping our places warm, in case, you know - we deign to give it a go....
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Old 05-26-2003, 08:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Said ROGUE:
While I'm on the subject... what is so damn challenging about strolling through a golf course and hitting a little ball into a hole that is not able to be accomplished by a woman? This ain't B-Ball against Shaq or Jordan fer crissakes.
Ah, spoken like a true neophyte. Someday you should try hitting the ball into the hole, and see just how 'easy' it is. You might spend the rest of your life trying to prove to everyone that with a little more practice, "it is, too, easy.'
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Old 05-26-2003, 08:15 PM   #22
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said Oscar:
I'm with Jerry Seinfeld on this one. He said that every man considers himself a low level superhero - when boys read comics; superman, spiderman etc, it's not entertainment, they're looking into career choices...

Similarly, when we watch Tiger Woods or Ronaldo or Michael Schumacher or Rossi on TV, we know that if'n we really wanted too, we could do that. You often hear men saying this as you watch TV....I could do that....

It's just we got other things on our plate right now, we're busy wid other stuff. So Tiger and Valentino and the rest, they're just keeping our places warm, in case, you know - we deign to give it a go....
Great post, Oscar, and so very true!
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Old 05-27-2003, 03:45 AM   #23
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Quote:
Said wxwax:
Ah, spoken like a true neophyte. Someday you should try hitting the ball into the hole, and see just how 'easy' it is. You might spend the rest of your life trying to prove to everyone that with a little more practice, "it is, too, easy.'
The closest I've tried is Putt Putt, I've not had the chance to learn the real game of golf yet. I'm sure if I putt my mind to it, it could be done. Hell, I'd be happy driving the golf cart and drinking beer.

I have a friend who used to be the hired "pro" at a golf course years ago, beat everyone all the time. She's in her 50's (or 60's not sure) and she still beats the hired pro at her fav golf course If I were going to learn, it'd be from her.
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Old 05-27-2003, 05:30 AM   #24
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Quote:
Said ROGUE:
While I'm on the subject... what is so damn challenging about strolling through a golf course and hitting a little ball into a hole that is not able to be accomplished by a woman? This ain't B-Ball against Shaq or Jordan fer crissakes.
There's nothing challenging about golf. Its not a real sport. Real sports (like pro-wrestling) are played by real men, not guys with their gut hanging over their belts who couldn't make it up a flight of stairs unassisted. The only reason women can't do as well against men in golf as they do in other pseudo-sports like pool, is because they lack the upper body strength to drive the ball as far. If women players were only allowed to take steroids, there wouldn't be any need for the LPGA.
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Old 05-27-2003, 06:29 AM   #25
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Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

[QUOTE]Said Oscar:
From Fred on Everthing:

What I don't see is why the club should let women compete against men in the first place. Sure, it sounds like high principle and real fair and American, like Superman. But I notice that all this fairness is one-sided. If men wanted to shoot in ladies' clubs, or play in the women's golf tournaments, every feminist and all her litter-mates would go crazy. Na-a-wwww, that wouldn't be fair.

I'm in agreement with some of what Fred had to say, but I take issue with two points he makes above. If a woman proves herself capable of competing against men in some athletic endeavor, why should she be excluded? As long as the rules apply equally to every competitor, I see no reason to exclude someone on the basis of gender alone, and Fred doesn't give us one. Secondly, while Fred is probably correct in pointing out that allowing men to compete in women's tournaments would draw protests from various Feminist quarters, this is just a circumstantial ad hominem. It in no way supports his conclusion that allowing qualified women to participate in men's leagues is unfair.
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Old 05-27-2003, 07:29 AM   #26
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As long as the rules apply equally to every competitor, I see no reason to exclude someone on the basis of gender alone, and Fred doesn't give us one.
That's the problem with Annika competing in this tournament. In order for male golfers to join the tour, they must first pass Qualifying School, or "Q" school. This is a really tough set of tournaments and skill tests. Many men who are trying to break onto the PGA tour will have to attend "Q" School more than once if they don't do well on the tour. They get sent down to the Buy.Com or Nike tour. Think of it as similar to the Major League in Baseball.

Annika was able to play via a Sponsors Exemption. These exemptions are not usually granted to golfers who are not already qualified players on the PGA Tour. Usually they are used to get a sponsored golfer in, who didn't qualify for one reason or another, but have still passed "Q" school. They might also be used to bring in a retired golfer for publicity.
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Old 05-27-2003, 07:40 AM   #27
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I was reading an article last week in one of the golf mags. they were discussing the history of sponsors exemptions. years ago, the sponsors could invite who ever they wanted. Joe Louis, Babe Ruth, different movie stars, etc. Now, the amatuer must have at least a 2 handicap or better to play.

the number of people invited depends on the size of the field and tends to change year to year. now it's mostly former tourneys champs, older PGA players and those that have qualified buy finishing a certain position in Q school or the Nationwide tour (formerly the buy.com tour) and college standouts.
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Old 05-27-2003, 03:45 PM   #28
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said Andrew Ward
Quote:
The only reason women can't do as well against men in golf as they do in other pseudo-sports like pool, is because they lack the upper body strength to drive the ball as far.
Akchooley, the distance comes from clubhead speed, which is a total package type deal, including (but not limited to): leg strength, balance, flexibility on the rotation, quick hands, etc.
If we go off calling golf a pseudo sport, then you may as well lump road riding in there. At least motocrossers have to be in shape. I can't recall ever straining anything on the road bike. My ass gets tired, but I honestly can't think of a physical advantage over a female.
Well.....I can think of one, but I'm trying my best to keep on the righteous path.
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Old 05-27-2003, 03:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Said Gordy:
said Andrew Ward
Akchooley, the distance comes from clubhead speed, which is a total package type deal, including (but not limited to): leg strength, balance, flexibility on the rotation, quick hands, etc.
Gordy
That pretty much sums it up in respect of tee shots, but I work with a good golfer (2 Handicap) and he says that women are at a disadvantage using irons in the fairway. He says that is the one place where physical strength is required - to pick the ball off the grass or rough .
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Old 05-27-2003, 04:04 PM   #30
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Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

[QUOTE]Said Andrew Ward:
Quote:
Said Oscar:
I'm in agreement with some of what Fred had to say, but I take issue with two points he makes above. If a woman proves herself capable of competing against men in some athletic endeavor, why should she be excluded?
I agree, and you can see that in motorsport.
There has been (and may be still be) several riding 250GP's, Angel Sealing in drag racing, and Michelle Mouton in World Rally (as far as I know, she is the only woman to have won a round of the WRC).

The point is Ms. Sorenstam didn't qualify.
She was there on a sponsors exemption and that smacks of publicilty stunt....
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