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Old 05-27-2003, 05:14 PM   #31
Oscar
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Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said Andrew Ward:
[/i]

Secondly, while Fred is probably correct in pointing out that allowing men to compete in women's tournaments would draw protests from various Feminist quarters, this is just a circumstantial ad hominem. It in no way supports his conclusion that allowing qualified women to participate in men's leagues is unfair.
This is about equity.
I'm sure men wouldn't want to play the LPGA, but at the moment there's no way of knowing - they are excluded.

A better example is tennis.
More people watch the mens tennis, but some women players have called for equal prizemoney. How can they justify this? They won't play the men and can't play to that level, so why should they get the same money?

BTW - before anyone mentions Bobby Riggs - he was 57 years old. Venus Willaims was quite vocal after making it to the top of womans tennis about the lack of challenges in the WTA and how she could take on the men. Seubsequently a (male)German player ranked 203rd in the world played Venus and Serena Williams in a set each. The result was 6-1 and 6-2. You will note that Venus was a bit less vocal about playing against men after that.
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Old 05-27-2003, 09:50 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

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Said Oscar:
The point is Ms. Sorenstam didn't qualify.
She was there on a sponsors exemption and that smacks of publicilty stunt....
So what? Who cares?

It was good for the tournament, good for women's golf, good for TV, good for golf in general. The public certainly enjoyed it.

I can't think of a single loser in the whole deal. So what's the beef?
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Old 05-27-2003, 09:59 PM   #33
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said wxwax:
So what? Who cares?

It was good for the tournament, good for women's golf, good for TV, good for golf in general. The public certainly enjoyed it.

I can't think of a single loser in the whole deal. So what's the beef?

The beef is that there's nuttin' juicy to argue about on JM anymore.....(I'm so desperate I've argued both sides of this thread). I suppose it's 'cause it's summer over there and you bastidges get to go riding.....:mad:
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Old 05-28-2003, 05:53 AM   #34
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Quote:
Said Gordy:
said Andrew Ward
Akchooley, the distance comes from clubhead speed, which is a total package type deal, including (but not limited to): leg strength, balance, flexibility on the rotation, quick hands, etc.
If we go off calling golf a pseudo sport, then you may as well lump road riding in there.
I do. I would never refer to road riding as a "sport". Road racing, is another matter; that does require a lot of strength, stamina, reaction time, and general athleticism to do well.
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Old 05-28-2003, 06:24 AM   #35
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said Oscar:
The beef is that there's nuttin' juicy to argue about on JM anymore.....(I'm so desperate I've argued both sides of this thread). I suppose it's 'cause it's summer over there and you bastidges get to go riding.....:mad:
You just can't find anyone to fight with can ya?
we'll be back in six months.
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Old 05-28-2003, 06:25 AM   #36
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Re: Re: Re: I think Fred got it right (again)...

Quote:
Said Oscar:
This is about equity.
I'm sure men wouldn't want to play the LPGA, but at the moment there's no way of knowing - they are excluded.
The question of equity is a seperate argument. Its peripheral to Fred's point that Sorensen should not have been allowed to play in a men's tournament in the first place. Raising the question of equity reveals an inconsistency, to be sure, but it takes him no closer to his desired conclusion.

Quote:
A better example is tennis.
More people watch the mens tennis, but some women players have called for equal prizemoney. How can they justify this? They won't play the men and can't play to that level, so why should they get the same money?
Perhaps the prize money should me determined in part by the number of tickets sold rather than the skill level of the participants. Then they'd have nothing to complain about. Bobby Fischer once argued that the world chess championship should have the same amount of prize money offered as the world boxing championship. Of course the argument is nonsense; the level of attendance isn't even comparable, nor is the level of sponsorship. I imagine the same is true for women's sports, none of which generate the same level of interest as men's sports.

Quote:
BTW - before anyone mentions Bobby Riggs - he was 57 years old. Venus Willaims was quite vocal after making it to the top of womans tennis about the lack of challenges in the WTA and how she could take on the men. Seubsequently a (male)German player ranked 203rd in the world played Venus and Serena Williams in a set each. The result was 6-1 and 6-2. You will note that Venus was a bit less vocal about playing against men after that.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting for a moment that men don't have an overwhelming physical advantage in most sports. I'm merely arguing that gender should not determine which events athletes are allowed to compete in.
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Old 05-28-2003, 04:45 PM   #37
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said Andrew Ward
Quote:
I do. I would never refer to road riding as a "sport". Road racing, is another matter; that does require a lot of strength, stamina, reaction time, and general athleticism to do well.
You are similar to Oscar, ( who admitted that he was on both sides of this one).
Golf requires:
Quote:
a lot of strength, stamina, reaction time, and general athleticism to do well.
as well.
So golf is a sport, and we can all and get on to something else.
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Old 05-28-2003, 04:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Said Gordy:
said Andrew Ward

You are similar to Oscar, ( who admitted that he was on both sides of this one).
Golf requires:
as well.
So golf is a sport, and we can all and get on to something else.
Gordy
I think it was Earnest Hemingway that said:

Mountaineering and Motorsport are sports, the rest are games..
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Old 05-28-2003, 07:26 PM   #39
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Golf SUCKS..
As a matter of fact, the local racetrack is being tore up so a "community" with its own private golf course can be built, like LI needs another one.
That racetrack was there for 75 years, had some historic significance...Back in the days, the good ole boys had a rally going through the local towns. Then some spectators were killed, so they built the track. Now its going, going.......
The year I learned to ride, they stopped using it, and having the Penguin Road Racing School there.
Golf SUCKS....ASS!!!
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Old 05-29-2003, 06:07 AM   #40
Aurelius
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Quote:
Said Oscar:
I think it was Earnest Hemingway that said:

Mountaineering and Motorsport are sports, the rest are games..
I had a colleague once who argued that all sporting events could be divided into two categories: circular and linear. Circular sports would include things like auto racing (on a closed loop track), tennis, Jai Alai, and other racket sports. Linear sports might include marathon running, golf, etc. His conclusion was that only linear sports were any good because in circular sports you always end up where you started, so that in the end nothing had really been achieved.
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