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02-21-2009, 06:18 AM   #61
rivercreep

Joined: Feb 2007
Oddometer: 3,159
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night...........

But I'm still too dense for all this to sink in!

Sure did appreciate all the hard work though!
YOU ROCK!
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by windmill The biggest lesson I learned is that real world usability trumps supposedly technical superiority.

03-01-2009, 06:08 PM   #62
mouthfulloflake
Not afraid

Joined: Aug 2008
Location: N.W. Arkansas
Oddometer: 13,179
Luke, can you explain this further to me?

Ive got mine apart, cleaned up, and contemplating starting to wind the missing posts on the core it self.

It appears I can get 3 windings, of 5 posts each, not sure about the 120 degrees apart deal though, am I missing something else?

Thanks!

 From Drop Box

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Luke If you want to convert from two to three phase, you'll need a different stator core or flywheel. The number of phases is determined by the position of the magnets relative to the poles on the core.
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In dog beers, I've only had one.

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mouthfulloflake screwed with this post 03-01-2009 at 06:59 PM

03-01-2009, 09:25 PM   #63
Luke OP
GPoET&P

Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Idiotville, OR
Oddometer: 3,871
Quote:
 Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake Luke, can you explain this further to me? Ive got mine apart, cleaned up, and contemplating starting to wind the missing posts on the core it self. It appears I can get 3 windings, of 5 posts each, not sure about the 120 degrees apart deal though, am I missing something else? Thanks!
Hey, that's pretty neat. I sure didn't expect to see anything like that.

120* is describing the electrical signal, not the physical construction of the poles, exactly. If the flywheel had only one N and S magnet, then it would. If you have more than one N and S magnet, then divide 120* by the number of magnets to get the number of physical degrees separation of the stator winding poles.

So in this case, the poles are 20* apart, if the core is meant for three phases, there should be 6 N and 6 S poles on the flywheel magnets, so a piece of steel should stick to 12 places.

I'm a bit shaky on all that, so please try it and see if that's right before counting on it.

By all means, go ahead and try winding it. Get the same number of turns on each winding. It matters which way all the windings get connected together. There should be some sort of guide online to getting it right based on the direction of the windings. I remember seeing one but don't remember where it was.

03-01-2009, 09:28 PM   #64
mouthfulloflake
Not afraid

Joined: Aug 2008
Location: N.W. Arkansas
Oddometer: 13,179
right, thanks.

I plan to leave the stock in place, and wind the 2 others as closely as I can in guage and length.
then wire it in the delta config, likely externally, so I have options if one phase goes south on me.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Luke Hey, that's pretty neat. I sure didn't expect to see anything like that. 120* is describing the electrical signal, not the physical construction of the poles, exactly. If the flywheel had only one N and S magnet, then it would. If you have more than one N and S magnet, then divide 120* by the number of magnets to get the number of physical degrees separation of the stator winding poles. So in this case, the poles are 20* apart, if the core is meant for three phases, there should be 6 N and 6 S poles on the flywheel magnets, so a piece of steel should stick to 12 places. I'm a bit shaky on all that, so please try it and see if that's right before counting on it. By all means, go ahead and try winding it. Get the same number of turns on each winding. It matters which way all the windings get connected together. There should be some sort of guide online to getting it right based on the direction of the windings. I remember seeing one but don't remember where it was.
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In dog beers, I've only had one.

Charter member: T.O. club.

 03-02-2009, 02:03 PM #65 mouthfulloflake Not afraid     Joined: Aug 2008 Location: N.W. Arkansas Oddometer: 13,179 I will be trying to determine the configuration of the magnets in the flywheel this evening, using this device as loaned to me from one of my engineer co-workers. __________________ In dog beers, I've only had one. Charter member: T.O. club.
 03-02-2009, 03:16 PM #66 EvilGenius 1.5 Finger Discount     Joined: Apr 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Oddometer: 20,198 Double checking to see if I got it right. OK, so reading from the first page, I should be able to figure out the voltage output of my stock stator (at idle) by unplugging it and while running the engine at idle checking the voltage (i'm assuming DC) difference across the terminals with my meter? I'd like to know what the stock output is since I haven't been able to find any info on it and the previous owner threw some extra lights on it but I'm not sure the stock stator puts out enough to keep the battery charged with them on. __________________ "Try turning that burn into torque. Then we're getting somewhere. Riding the potato to work seems quite impractical." - anotherguy "Never bring a Nerf gun to a shovel fight." - My Brother
03-02-2009, 04:47 PM   #67
Luke OP
GPoET&P

Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Idiotville, OR
Oddometer: 3,871
Quote:
 Originally Posted by EvilGenius Double checking to see if I got it right. OK, so reading from the first page, I should be able to figure out the voltage output of my stock stator (at idle) by unplugging it and while running the engine at idle checking the voltage (i'm assuming DC) difference across the terminals with my meter? I'd like to know what the stock output is since I haven't been able to find any info on it and the previous owner threw some extra lights on it but I'm not sure the stock stator puts out enough to keep the battery charged with them on.

No, the stator voltage is designed for the load it is driving. For any 12V system, the unloaded stator voltage should be somewhere around 15-25VAC at idle. So unless the stator has been rewound or damaged you would expect to see about the same voltage regardless of the rated power output of the stator. Stator voltage is what you would check to figure out if the stator has the right number of coils on it.

You can calculate stator output with all the formulas I posted by measuring the voltage with different known loads attached, but if you just want to see if the stator is good enough for your application, it's overly complicated.

In your case, I'd just measure the battery directly. Set the voltmeter to VDC, and clip its leads directly to the battery terminals. Without starting the bike, turn the headlight on for 15 seconds or so. Turn it off, and note the battery voltage. Start the bike. If the battery voltage is a few tenths of a volt above the noted voltage, you know it is charging. If at or below, it is discharging.

03-02-2009, 05:19 PM   #68
rickypanecatyl

Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Oddometer: 840
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Nomadmax Good gawd ! Dude, if I knew half of what you know, my head would explode !

 03-02-2009, 10:06 PM #69 mouthfulloflake Not afraid     Joined: Aug 2008 Location: N.W. Arkansas Oddometer: 13,179 12 magnet pulses inside my flywheel Luke. and it appears that the are north/south ( repeating). so it appears my idea of a pseudo 3 phase generator will work, ill start wiring it up in the next day or so. __________________ In dog beers, I've only had one. Charter member: T.O. club.
03-03-2009, 04:13 PM   #70
EvilGenius
1.5 Finger Discount

Joined: Apr 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Oddometer: 20,198
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Luke No, the stator voltage is designed for the load it is driving. For any 12V system, the unloaded stator voltage should be somewhere around 15-25VAC at idle. So unless the stator has been rewound or damaged you would expect to see about the same voltage regardless of the rated power output of the stator. Stator voltage is what you would check to figure out if the stator has the right number of coils on it. You can calculate stator output with all the formulas I posted by measuring the voltage with different known loads attached, but if you just want to see if the stator is good enough for your application, it's overly complicated. In your case, I'd just measure the battery directly. Set the voltmeter to VDC, and clip its leads directly to the battery terminals. Without starting the bike, turn the headlight on for 15 seconds or so. Turn it off, and note the battery voltage. Start the bike. If the battery voltage is a few tenths of a volt above the noted voltage, you know it is charging. If at or below, it is discharging.
Thanks!

__________________
"Try turning that burn into torque. Then we're getting somewhere. Riding the potato to work seems quite impractical." - anotherguy

"Never bring a Nerf gun to a shovel fight." - My Brother

03-03-2009, 07:03 PM   #71
sgopher185

Joined: May 2006
Location: Plain City, Ohio
Oddometer: 115
I definitely need to watch this as I have a dirt DR350 that I want to dual sport. I just got an S stator and regulator and was going to go this route, but I might try the rewind route instead. Take GOOD pictures

Quote:
 Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake 12 magnet pulses inside my flywheel Luke. and it appears that the are north/south ( repeating). so it appears my idea of a pseudo 3 phase generator will work, ill start wiring it up in the next day or so.
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Current Ride:
2009 BMW F800GS (the Dewalt special)
1990 DR350
2004 TTR125 (son's bike)
Past Rides:
2004 950 S GO!!!! (Incredible bike that I really miss)
1995 VFR 750 (love the v-4 sound !)
1987 Hurricane 1000
1988 Hurricane 600
1985 VF500F

03-05-2009, 09:36 AM   #72
mouthfulloflake
Not afraid

Joined: Aug 2008
Location: N.W. Arkansas
Oddometer: 13,179
I wrapped it last night, need to drip some resin on it, and poke the wires thru the grommet and test it out!

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sgopher185 I definitely need to watch this as I have a dirt DR350 that I want to dual sport. I just got an S stator and regulator and was going to go this route, but I might try the rewind route instead. Take GOOD pictures
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In dog beers, I've only had one.

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 11-15-2009, 10:21 AM #73 Exile The Mundane and The Magic     Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Illinois Oddometer: 196 I have posted a write up based off of this thread and procycle's page on Thumpertalk, and once I can make sure I didn't make any mistakes I will post it on here as well. http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...=846401&page=2 If anyone sees something I did wrong please let me know right away before I put it back together. Thanks. __________________ What is it here that tempts the night to stab the day and kill the light? -Dark Tranquillity My Site! TAT 2010 RR! My DR650 Build DR650 Stator Rewire
 11-15-2009, 03:52 PM #74 D.T. One wheel wonder...     Joined: Aug 2004 Location: Moneyapolis, MN Oddometer: 7,589 How do you wind a 3 phase stator in Delta configuration? __________________ "Tough times don't last, but tough people do." Robert A. Schuler
 11-15-2009, 04:21 PM #75 Seth S Safari Scramble!!!!!     Joined: Jul 2004 Location: sanity? Oddometer: 3,529 I always thought you were better off to go with smaller diameter wire when making your stator windings. The other side that I didn't see mentioned in this thread is the strength of the magnets. If you could build a flywheel up that uses rare earth magnets or whatever the strongest magnets you can get in combination with a rewound stator then your should have optimal output.....at a loss of engine power of course. __________________ Seth S My intuition nearly makes up for my lack of good judgement. Just installed my new trolling motor Husaberg tank for sale: HERE

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