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Old 02-04-2007, 04:02 AM   #31
alfaris
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Talking

So then we all agree 525 is a good starting point for a good adventure preparation. I like adventure mostly as a rough terrain adventure, not only long long distance rides.
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Old 02-04-2007, 05:01 AM   #32
overlandr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John E Davies
Very pretty bike, if all you want to do is look at it or someone else is buying the parts. After the first few falls onto rocks it will look like hell and those gorgeous expen$ive handmade alloy pannier tanks will look like road-side trash.
$25K for the whole thing apparently!
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Old 02-04-2007, 06:05 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Odysseus
No. BTW, what kind of oil should I use in my.....
I see a thread hijack in the future!
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Old 02-04-2007, 03:29 PM   #34
Jan from Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John E Davies
are there ANY rocks in Dakar(
Does the Saguaro grow every desert in the US? Are all desert towns like Las Vegas? When TV/Movies/Ads show us something spectacular, it doesn’t mean the whole world is like that. Just like you said, they like to show us what looks good on camera. Actually the route looks more like this:

Day 6



Legend



Day 7



Day 8



Day 9



Day 10



Quote:
Originally Posted by John E Davies

I fall a LOT more than those pro Dakar riders do - if I had alloy pannier tanks I could never go off pavement ;(
I wouldn’t be so sure. To my understanding most riders crash/tip over several times during the race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descalzo

IMO it really depends on your individual definition of adventure & just how much maintenece you're willing to put up with.

The rfs isn't an LC4. A LC4 isn't an LC8. They're all built for different purposes & they all have different lifespans.

The real question you need to ask yourself is what's your purpose?
I agree this, but not entirely with your BTW comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descalzo

BTW- could we all stop using the Paris/Dakar rally as some form of "gold standard" to judge the long term adventure "worthiness" of any particular ride
What else we could use as a “gold standard” to judge adventure bikes? Should we ride what the locals use in the Sahara: small, simple, late seventies - early eighties two-strokes like TS125s?

The Dakar bikes feed our imagination. The rally doesn’t guarantee the long term worthiness, but if you can race the bike 8000 km/5000 miles, it should stay together in my use much longer. That’s especially true for frame, suspension, fairing and almost all other components than engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaris

Dakar bikes are built and re-built each night at the vibouac. Is not a trustable endurance reference.
True, but you should realize that it’s just the normal maintenance interval for a modern race bike (like EXC). Personally I wouldn’t like to do that so often, but if you do the maintenance, you should be able to use the EXC as an adventure bike. At least, for a weekend adventures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaris

It is just about using the right tool for the right job.
Couldn’t be more true.
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:17 PM   #35
s4awd
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[quote=...The Dakar bikes feed our imagination. [/quote]

So true.

s4awd screwed with this post 02-04-2007 at 09:26 PM
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:02 PM   #36
Mythic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan from Finland

I agree this, but not entirely with your BTW comment.

What else we could use as a “gold standard” to judge adventure bikes? Should we ride what the locals use in the Sahara: small, simple, late seventies - early eighties two-strokes like TS125s?

The Dakar bikes feed our imagination. The rally doesn’t guarantee the long term worthiness, but if you can race the bike 8000 km/5000 miles, it should stay together in my use much longer. That’s especially true for frame, suspension, fairing and almost all other components than engine.
oh are you serious?! A purpose built Dakar machine has no more in common to a new EXC that you might buy, than a Chevy at the dealership has in common with whoever/whatever won the most recent NASCAR race.

I've no intention of Hi-jacking this thread further than it's gone so I'll briefly address the items you mentioned:

The frame? Hmm... nope-sorry. Stock EXC's don't come with billet headtubes, frame overlays, reinforcements or the gussets welded in. Hmm..just not much in common with what you can buy out of the showroom aside from the basic building block it's based on. Take a close look next time you see a bike/photo stripped naked.

Suspension? Opps-nope. Complete aftermarket items. Nothing in common with what you can get outta the showroom. (custom machined billet goodies inside those pretty aftermarket legs too)

Fairing? A fairing? Hmm, no. EXC's don't have fairings... Must be aftermarket (Mecca) - oh dear.

All other components? Oh shoot- vast majority is all aftermarket again! Dangit!! Rims, hubs, spokes, seats, tanks, pipes, plumbing, electrical, Ti nuts & bolts. Geez, KTM just doesn't sell that stuff.

Engine? Oh lets see... hmmm well the cases, the cylnder, and the head castings are KTM. The crank-no, the piston-no, the valves - no, the clutch -no, The tranny! that must be the durable factory part you're talking about! Oh, no custom re-geared units. (& with a smattering of billet thrown in - just like KTM sells you right?)

Huh, I guess those Dakar bikes really are just like what you can buy from the dealer aren't they? AND since those PURPOSE BUILT Dakar bikes stand up so well, that EXC must be able to take anything you can dish out. Especially after you drop the same $15-20K to make it just like a Dakar bike.

Sorry for the smart-a** reply,

We'd all be better off if we learned about what's really being raced (in any race) before we make the erroneous conclusion that it's the same thing sitting in the showroom. They're not. Typically, aside from the basic design all they've got in common are the gas tank stickers.
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:26 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descalzo
oh are you serious?! A purpose built Dakar machine has no more in common to a new EXC that you might buy, than a Chevy at the dealership has in common with whoever/whatever won the most recent NASCAR race.

I've no intention of Hi-jacking this thread further than it's gone so I'll briefly address the items you mentioned:

The frame? Hmm... nope-sorry. Stock EXC's don't come with billet headtubes, frame overlays, reinforcements or the gussets welded in. Hmm..just not much in common with what you can buy out of the showroom aside from the basic building block it's based on. Take a close look next time you see a bike/photo stripped naked.

Suspension? Opps-nope. Complete aftermarket items. Nothing in common with what you can get outta the showroom. (custom machined billet goodies inside those pretty aftermarket legs too)

Fairing? A fairing? Hmm, no. EXC's don't have fairings... Must be aftermarket (Mecca) - oh dear.

All other components? Oh shoot- vast majority is all aftermarket again! Dangit!! Rims, hubs, spokes, seats, tanks, pipes, plumbing, electrical, Ti nuts & bolts. Geez, KTM just doesn't sell that stuff.

Engine? Oh lets see... hmmm well the cases, the cylnder, and the head castings are KTM. The crank-no, the piston-no, the valves - no, the clutch -no, The tranny! that must be the durable factory part you're talking about! Oh, no custom re-geared units. (& with a smattering of billet thrown in - just like KTM sells you right?)

Huh, I guess those Dakar bikes really are just like what you can buy from the dealer aren't they? AND since those PURPOSE BUILT Dakar bikes stand up so well, that EXC must be able to take anything you can dish out. Especially after you drop the same $15-20K to make it just like a Dakar bike.

Sorry for the smart-a** reply,

We'd all be better off if we learned about what's really being raced (in any race) before we make the erroneous conclusion that it's the same thing sitting in the showroom. They're not. Typically, aside from the basic design all they've got in common are the gas tank stickers.
Of the 250 motorcycles entered in the 2007 Dakar Rally a grand total of 8 were factory KTM 690 Rallys. There was a whole lot of bikes that you and I can buy crossing the finish line on January 21st.
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Old 02-05-2007, 07:13 AM   #38
alfaris
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Eh?

So then, to find out if a 525 is a good adventure bike, we should first stablish the differences between adventure riding and DAKAR riding .
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Old 02-05-2007, 08:06 AM   #39
John E Davies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaris
So then, to find out if a 525 is a good adventure bike, we should first stablish the differences between adventure riding and DAKAR riding .
The BIG difference is large amounts of cash (relative to your typical casual owner/ enthusiast) and team support out in the boonies for when you break down. Oh yeah, and the insanely higher speed factor at Dakar.

If I had both of those first two items I would ride a Dakar bike too, but it isn't on my list for a bike I can live with on a daily basis, within my limited budget. No way will I ever ride at Dakar speeds, since I want to die in bed as an old man ;)
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:03 AM   #40
alpiv
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Has anyone considered calling the US KTM reps?

Yes, they want to sell machines, yet I believe they will give you the skinny on this topic and tell you that you should not rely on the KTM EXC transmissions and motors for long distance trips with out multiple and frequent maintenance intervals..

At least that was told to me by a qualified KTM shop owner and their mechanics (they have more to gain by lying then anyone).

Just an idea.




KTM-North America Inc.
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Tel. +43 7742/6000-0, Fax. +43 7742/6000-0
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:41 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpiv
Yes, they want to sell machines, yet I believe they will give you the skinny on this topic and tell you that you should not rely on the KTM EXC transmissions and motors for long distance trips with out multiple and frequent maintenance intervals..
That's my feeling too - maintenence periods are quoted in HOURS not in terms of 1,000's of miles like any "normal" bike.

My 525 MXC is great fun, and I'd dearly like to get a comfy seat for it and take it on some long distance trips, but I'm concerned that its just gonna blow up at the worst possible time.

Convince me otherwise, and I'll take it with me to Norway and back at the end of next month. Otherwise, its beginning to look like I'll br acquiring and taking an XR400.
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:53 AM   #42
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Bluhduh Sucking Wind

The guy to call in Ohio is Tood.
If you think your going to get some help
HEY "Les" are you going to take your girl friend to norway?????
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Old 02-05-2007, 04:57 PM   #43
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RFSs

Dang. You mean, now that I am getting my 525 ready to both race and dual sport that I will have to buy a new 690 Adventure when they come out so I can have a long distance bike? Life seems to deliver nasty blows and tough choices....

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Old 02-05-2007, 06:31 PM   #44
flux_capacitor
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You guys are way overthinking this. Ride the damn bike. Do the maintenance. Have a good time. It is a hoot to rip it up out there on these things. You do not want to ride it from say Michigan to Florida but it is not going to self destruct.
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:38 AM   #45
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true,

525 is a fun machine
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