Minimalist Touring Thread (250cc and under)

[sandalscout]

When German and Austrian companies moved engine assembly to China, and are still producing engines at the same level of quality that they have been for a long time, NJ-Brett was proven correct. China is more than capable of producing high quality items, if consumers are willing to pay.

I would not hesitate to buy an engine assembled or manufactured in China, nor a bike made in China, IF it's a higher quality item, from a known manufacturer, and with a decent warranty. Sure, there is a bunch of crap rolling out of there, but there is some stuff that rivals any where else also.

[frog13]

I believe folks who ride smaller cc bikes definetly take alot of BS from the bike community in general.As for China built items. They can build stuff to the Business' spec's.But,if the price goes up,where is the rest of that money going to.....communist military perhaps.Business, in general, hopefully wakes up and realizes that without jobs in the U.S.,who will buy the China made stuff?. China is backing itself into a dependence corner.Buy made in America whenever possible,support an American family.

[Ed@Ford]

Originally Posted by sandalscout

When German and Austrian companies moved engine assembly to China, and are still producing engines at the same level of quality that they have been for a long time, NJ-Brett was proven correct. China is more than capable of producing high quality items, if consumers are willing to pay.

I would not hesitate to buy an engine assembled or manufactured in China, nor a bike made in China, IF it's a higher quality item, from a known manufacturer, and with a decent warranty. Sure, there is a bunch of crap rolling out of there, but there is some stuff that rivals any where else also.

I worked for a company who was a "technology enabeler" to china, before I completely retired. Companies like BMW have engineers on site in china with big goddam whips to insure quality of the product they buy....when they turn their back, those chinese companies will make crap. Too many companies out there who buy from the "low cost provider" aren't smart enough to have on-site quality control folks that hold vendors' feet to the fire.....chinese and otherwise

[Ed@Ford]

Originally Posted by SAPB

It's nice to be able to get to the show, and see nearly all there is to see in one spot. My daughter and I went three years ago, so she could sit on the one's she had interest in, on upgrading from a baby nina. She's 5' even, so it's "slim pickins" for her. We also went to Americade two years ago, and there wasn't a single bike she felt comfortable on to test ride, other than the Can Am trike. She did exit the 250 club with something she had lowered, and had the seat shaved by a local upholsterer, who took pictures of her on it to decide how to best go about it.

Have you looked at the india built KTM 390 duke? $$$..probably damn fast.....however, I don't like KTM as a company...or Austria as a country...but that's another story

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by Ed@Ford

I worked for a company who was a "technology enabeler" to china, before I completely retired. Companies like BMW have engineers on site in china with big goddam whips to insure quality of the product they buy....when they turn their back, those chinese companies will make crap. Too many companies out there who buy from the "low cost provider" aren't smart enough to have on-site quality control folks that hold vendors' feet to the fire.....chinese and otherwise

I agree......overall quality has went down on everything. Things in general just aren't made as good as they used to be. And paying more now doesn't always mean better quality.
Its the age of cheap crap. And I think its just going to continue getting worse

[NJ-Brett]

I think that is true mostly, and why I love my TU250, fantastic quality even though its a budget bike.
The motor even has cam bearings...very rare.
The only problem I ever heard about is speedometer cables breaking from water getting inside.
I have abused mine a lot and it just purrs.

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

I agree......overall quality has went down on everything. Things in general just aren't made as good as they used to be. And paying more now doesn't always mean better quality.
Its the age of cheap crap. And I think its just going to continue getting worse

[Ed@Ford]

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

I agree......overall quality has went down on everything. Things in general just aren't made as good as they used to be. And paying more now doesn't always mean better quality.
Its the age of cheap crap. And I think its just going to continue getting worse

Quality will keep going down simply because there are enough buyers out there who can not appreciate quality, value quality, can not differentiate quality, or are simply a member of the "kleenex" mindset who believe use it once, throw it away

[GlennR]

It's really hard to complain about the lack of quality when we live in a country that doesn't manufacture anything anymore.

[Fishenough]

Here is a nice trip report on ADV of a ride through Northern Laos on the great value Lifan 200 cross. (though I did break a friends Lifan cross's foot peg whom stopped at my house fresh from picking up his new bike, when I gave the suspension a bounce)..

But sure enjoyed the quotes here on another report of the ride, such as:

A little humble Lifan (China made motorcycle 200cc). ***** and his Lifan remind me of Disney movies, the king’s soldiers in the dark forest on a noble quest guided by magical wisps and nymphs. We were the dumb soldiers; ***** was that magical wisps..

Just like seeing all types ride together, and the RideAsia report is nicely honest.

[frog13]

Originally Posted by GlennR

It's really hard to complain about the lack of quality when we live in a country that doesn't manufacture anything anymore.

We do not produce anymore because ,"THEY" (profit mongers), wanted more coin,eventhough they said it would save money to have it produced in China.....it did not...in the long run.Quality is going down,if company's would go back to having pride in their products heritage,the people who build the product etc,etc,....THEN, you would see quality reappear.

The Gov. manufactures debt......................

[NJ-Brett]

Somehow we got off topic...

[skibikemototour]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

Somehow we got off topic...

The law of comparative advantage- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage could be used to argue that a country with advanced technology may find economic advantage when the low-tech manufacturing goes offshore. Econ 101.

OTOH I like my WR250R! Thrilled at the quality, the engineering, the performance, the reliability, the relative cost. Was there ever a motorcycle made in the US or anywhere to equal it?

I like that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto has safety and efficiency while offering adequate performance for the task. As well, I like it that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto tends to break less, and does not rip up a new knobby in a few days. I like it that it is light enough to throw around or pick up, without a cost or reliability penalty from exotic manufacturing to make it light

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

I think that is true mostly, and why I love my TU250, fantastic quality even though its a budget bike.
The motor even has cam bearings...very rare.
The only problem I ever heard about is speedometer cables breaking from water getting inside.
I have abused mine a lot and it just purrs.

Originally Posted by skibikemototour

The law of comparative advantage- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage could be used to argue that a country with advanced technology may find economic advantage when the low-tech manufacturing goes offshore. Econ 101.

OTOH I like my WR250R! Thrilled at the quality, the engineering, the performance, the reliability, the relative cost. Was there ever a motorcycle made in the US or anywhere to equal it?

I like that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto has safety and efficiency while offering adequate performance for the task. As well, I like it that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto tends to break less, and does not rip up a new knobby in a few days. I like it that it is light enough to throw around or pick up, without a cost or reliability penalty from exotic manufacturing to make it light

We're lucky, the japanese have always prided themselves on making outstanding performing and quality motorcycles (for the most part lol)....you can't go wrong buying japanese machinery. I've owned almost exclusively japanese equipment over the 37 years of riding (started young ) and 100+ machines I've owned, and never regretted buying any of them
As long as the japanese stick to their motto, and keep building quality stuff, us bikers should be fine.....I just hope this trend that honda's started of having some bikes built in china and thailand doesn't spread.....that would REALLY suck
I don't care how much they ride those chinese and taiwanese workers in those second tier factories, they aren't going to produce the same consistent quality of machinery with the same level of materials

[Ed@Ford]

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

I don't care how much they ride those chinese and taiwanese workers in those second tier factories, they aren't going to produce the same quality of machinery

I don't believe that. Chinese workers that screw up have an alternative....the government run death camps!

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by Ed@Ford

I don't believe that. Chinese workers that screw up have an alternative....the government run death camps!