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Old 02-26-2007, 11:06 PM   #31
soloyosh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves
Oops, sorry soloyosh. I guess you (or someone?) beat me to it.

Do you know why a back protector wasn't included? Cost?
Maybe an effort to keep the cost down... I do know after reading a few papers on the subject, that there is some debate as to the value of a back-protector. Many believe that most back injuries that are sustained do not come from direct impacts but from torsion and flexion generated by your extremities contacting objects.

I wear one...
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves




...
*** Caveat - the following applies for Canadians only (not sure how/if duties apply for those down south..) ***

A friend who imports a lot of stuff from Europe told me to get the company to write the gear is safety related and you won't get charged duties. Seemed simple enough and Biker-Land were happy to write "safety jacket" on the bill of lading. Not much of a stretch really since it's the name of the jacket... Fast forward a few weeks and Canada Post is asking $200 Cdn for duty and fees!! "But, it's safety related!!?!" said me to the clerk, who didn't know anything about duties other than she can't release the package unless I pay...
So I paid.

I told my friend what happened and she clarified, you have to write "safety equipment". If you mention that it is clothing, then you get dinged all duty and import charges. Great, now I know..

I'm going to try and fight it though and explain that it is safety equipment, certified by EN CE standards, for use by UK police forces, etc., etc. Something tells me the chances of getting my money back are slim to nothing, but it's worth a try.
Everything you say is exactly the same here. Clothing is 30% here. (Woman at customs at the international depot next door to my work place told me 40%, but I've been charged 30%. My Kushitani gloves, they charged me 10% - the same as for motorcycle parts.)

Same thing; it's no good complaining to the person at the counter; you either pay or leave your parcel and get into some extreme bureacratic stuff. The only way around it is to get it shipped to someone in the USA (or in the UK or Europe, depending on where you buy it) who will ship it to you marked GIFT.

The woman that works at Customs told me it that it gets applied to anything that can be construed as clothing - that it's a problem for people getting equestrian gear, and that she'd had a lawyer complaining about paying it for his advocate's gown.



So, you americans - stop moaning about the price of good gear.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soloyosh
Maybe an effort to keep the cost down...
It saves you having to replace the Halvarssons one with a TPro Forcefield one, and leaves you the option of having a separate one or an integrated one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soloyosh
Many believe that most back injuries that are sustained do not come from direct impacts but from torsion and flexion generated by your extremities contacting objects.

I wear one...
You could hit a kerb with your back. Or the edge of a car roof. Or a traffic light pole.
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:17 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves
Interesting that you should ask....there isn't one!

I didn't notice right away but when I did I was surprised. I've been trying to figure out why one wouldn't be included....was it a conscious decision? Is it based on accident data and findings that suggest back protectors don't necessarily increase safety? Are there not many spine injuries in motorcycle accidents? etc., etc. So far not sure. The safety jacket does include a sleeve to add a back protector and Halvarssons makes them as well, so it seems odd that it's not included. I'm betting there is rationale behind the decision and am going to send an email to them to see if I can get an answer. Stay tuned...
Thanks for the review and time you put into it.
I find it odd they dont put one in it, but like others said it
does give you the option of using what you want, or none at all.

The HJC leather I got came with a thin foam back pad, but has great
hard shoulder protection. I bought a Dainese backspace 2 on ebay
for $45 and tossed the foam.
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:37 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat


makinwaves, Thanks for the review, and all the photos. At last we get some real information about this jacket.

The price - that you paid - that's interesting, too, because we all thought it was too expensive. What a "turn up for the books" that it can work out to less than the motoport. Give us the details - do they have a website? I think they might get a few more sales after this.

Please tell us more about the fabric the Folio jacket is made of. Is it Gore-Tex? ...It must be - or something similar - given that it doesn't depend on a waterproof liner.

You decided you wanted something different to the motoport jacket. Did you consider Rukka - and perhaps you figured the protection of their Armacor jackets was not as proven as the Halvarssons...?

Thanks!
Hi Cat,

The company in Germany can be found at www.biker-land.de, and if you click the UK flag in the top right hand corner you'll get the site in English (you have to click another link on the page to go to the online shop).

Interestingly, they don't actually list the safety jacket on their website, but they do indicate they carry Halvarssons gear. I sent them an email asking if they carried it and they responded right away that they did. They also have a ton of Rukka gear. So if you want to get the safety jacket from them you have to send them an email asking for a price quote. I'm guessing they carry it in their physical store, but haven't updated their website yet??? Email correspondence was incredibly fast and the transaction went really smooth (I used paypal, I paid, then same day they sent an email saying they shipped! ). It took an extra week or so to get here (postal company screwup), but in total took just over 3 weeks for shipping. If you search "biker-land" on this site you'll get a couple other threads that discuss how good this company is to deal with. I also found some UK forums that had high praise for Biker-Land.

I did consider Rukka gear, but the lack of certification and steep cost kept me from buying. Not to say their gear wouldn't perform well in some of the tests, I just didn't want to spend that kind of money on untested technology, good or not. I did however like a lot of the styling associated with their jackets.

Speaking of price, I noticed someone selling their Motoport Ultra II Air Mesh Kevlar jacket on another thread (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...light=motoport) and the price they paid was $650 US not including shipping or taxes (price included liner and extra high-vis on sleeves). So you're right, Motoport jacket would be more expensive assuming you can avoid the import duties. At least the duties we have to pay here and you have to pay in South Africa!
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:44 AM   #36
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And, once in a while, someone gets one that doesn't fit right and they have to send them back. Imagine trying to avoid paying the duty twice.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:55 AM   #37
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In the photo of you wearing the jacket, it looks like there are thumb loops to keep the sleeves from sliding up...? I can't see them in the website pictures.
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Old 02-27-2007, 04:46 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soloyosh
Maybe an effort to keep the cost down... I do know after reading a few papers on the subject, that there is some debate as to the value of a back-protector. Many believe that most back injuries that are sustained do not come from direct impacts but from torsion and flexion generated by your extremities contacting objects.

I wear one...
belows the figures relating to injuries from users of powered two wheelers (thats motorbikes to normal peeps)

Spinal injuries not so common but v serious and I can say with some confidence that 1) They really hurt, more than a wedgie (I broke 5 vertabrae last summer, the pain is a bit like when the dentist hits a nerve but with all your nerves at once)

2) Soloyosh is right about flexion and hyperextension, my breaks were caused by a force like invisible hands wrapping round my chest and legs, pressing their thumbs in near my hips and snapping me in half. basically i was spinning horizontally through the air until my leg caught my somersaulting bike and stopped dead. a back protector made no difference here

For racing dirt a back protector is an excellent idea IMO but on asphalt there is less value (dont see many using a kidney belt though and have been told by doctors in A&E this is a real common and nasty injury when my girlfriend got SMIDSY'ed and with no other damage nearly lost her liver at fairly low impact speed)

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Old 02-27-2007, 06:36 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickysidedown
For racing dirt a back protector is an excellent idea IMO but on asphalt there is less value
I agree with you here but "less value" is still "value." While it may not protect against most types of back injuries stemming from moto-accidents, it will protect against some, like the instances cited by Cat. I wear one. It doesn't effect my comfort on the bike and it makes me look like RoboCop when I take off my jacket at the local hangout.

I dont want to steer the topic totally off but if anyone is interested some data on the foam type back pads used in a lot of gear (approx. 6.5mm thick) I have some. PM me for info...

Back to the HSS review...
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat
In the photo of you wearing the jacket, it looks like there are thumb loops to keep the sleeves from sliding up...? I can't see them in the website pictures.
Nope, no thumb loops on the jacket. Probably just my bad photo taking skills...

If you look at the photos of the safety jacket you'll notice velcro wrist straps around the wrist that you use to tighten and keep the jacket from riding up. I do find the arms to be a little tight around my huge pipes ( ), but I think it is designed that way to minimize any movement of the sleeves in a crash.
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Old 02-28-2007, 07:15 AM   #41
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Odd. I'd've sworn. Must be a trick of the light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves
I do find the arms to be a little tight around my huge pipes ( ), but I think it is designed that way to minimize any movement of the sleeves in a crash.
Yes, it is a requirement of the EN standard.

Do me a favor, please, when you get a chance.
Measure the sleeve length from the bottom of the collar at the back down to the sleeve cuffs. - On the airy or the Folio jacket, I suppose. I need to figure out which size will fit me - or rather, which sleeve length will fit me, never mind how loose the rest of it is. I think maybe the 50, if the sleeves are long enough. I'm assuming the Safety Jacket sleeves are slightly shorter than the outer jackets'.


I've got little patches of skin peeling off my wrists from Sunday last. At one point I saw how burnt - and sore - my wrists were. There was a gap between my sleeves and the Fox Bomber gloves I was wearing. I tried pulling them down and tightening the velcro but it didn't help - of course.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat
Odd. I'd've sworn. Must be a trick of the light.


Yes, it is a requirement of the EN standard.

Do me a favor, please, when you get a chance.
Measure the sleeve length from the bottom of the collar at the back down to the sleeve cuffs. - On the airy or the Folio jacket, I suppose. I need to figure out which size will fit me - or rather, which sleeve length will fit me, never mind how loose the rest of it is. I think maybe the 50, if the sleeves are long enough. I'm assuming the Safety Jacket sleeves are slightly shorter than the outer jackets'.


I've got little patches of skin peeling off my wrists from Sunday last. At one point I saw how burnt - and sore - my wrists were. There was a gap between my sleeves and the Fox Bomber gloves I was wearing. I tried pulling them down and tightening the velcro but it didn't help - of course.
Burnt??? I guess it's a tad warmer where you are than in Canada right now?

I hope I measured this from the right spot....I started at the bottom of the collar at the centre (top) of the shoulder and measured along the outside of the arm, along the elbow and down to the end of the sleeve for the outer jackets (Folio, Airy). In total it was 34.5 inches. For reference, I measured my bare arm using the same route along my shoulder and down to my wrist bone and measured 30 inches. It's another 4 inches to my first line of knuckles, so this makes sense if you look in the picture of me with the jacket on and see how the sleeve comes down to the base of my fingers. I also measured from the armpit, along the inner part of the arm and down to the end of the sleeve and this totalled 20 inches.

Here's a pic that shows the two lines I measured:



Hope that helps!
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Old 03-02-2007, 05:01 AM   #43
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Thanks! Well, the measurement I did [according motorport's instructions, which are the same, I think] I got about 35.5" - but i'm skinny. So I think the 52 is what I'll have to get, even though it'll be loose.

I sent email to biker-land.de yesterday, asking about the inseam length of the pants, and they replied within an hour. Twice, 2 different people. They contacted Jofama and got a .pdf listing the measurements needed, with a diagram showing where to measure. (The best I've seen.) They include the shoulder width, the outseam as well as the inseam of pants, the pants cuff width,... more than I've seen anywhere except with custom leathers. They said they'll send it to Jofama and they'll advise.

I was about to get a Kushitani leather jacket, but...the more I look at this, the more I think I'd better leave that for later. That Airy jacket looks good.
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Old 03-02-2007, 06:53 AM   #44
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How are you guys contacting biker-land? Got an email address? I've tried the one on their website and haven't received a reply in a couple weeks.
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:14 AM   #45
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I went to the contact / email form page (the button at the top right of the home page), then I clicked on the mailto address shown there instead of using the form.
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