Halvarssons Safety Jacket - First Impressions (long, lots and lots of pics)

[daesimps]

I'm thinking of purchasing the L1 jacket and outers to replace my Hein Gericke Gore-Tex gear. The big problem I'm having with the HG stuff is that, no matter how much Nik Wax is applied, the clothing "wets out". I've always been completely bone dry with the HG stuff but unfortunately my kitchen floor has not - the jacket always drips for hours if I've been out in the rain due to the amount of water held in the jacket outer.

Now for my question - does the Halvarssons suffer from the same problem? I've been looking around and some of the UK resellers have some of the older outer jackets for sale quite cheaply. I'm thinking of going for the Cyklops as I can get it for £89. Does anyone have any experience of this outer with regards to wetting out? How about the Halogen Hi-Vis outer?

Cheers in advance,
Dae.

[makinwaves]

I'm not sure I fully understand your HG problem, but I would probably say no to the same issue with Halvarssons. I live in the "Wet" coast of Canada where it rains here all winter long and I have no complaints of my jacket being overly wet or holding water.

Whenever I'm caught out in the rain the jacket outer obviously gets wet, but I don't think it holds water. More like it sheds it. Once I get home I hang it up to dry in the laundry room and sure it drips getting rid of the rest of the water, but I don't think it's that much.

Hope that helps.

[daesimps]

Let see if I can explain it better. The HG jacket has an outer material and then the waterproof Gore-Tex membrane on the inside and then finally the inner liner. Whilst the membrane stops water getting through to the inside and wetting me, it does not stop the outer material from absorbing all the rain. This has 2 disadvantages; the first is that when I hang it up at home it can drip water for hours and the second is that once the outer material is water-logged it is no longer breathable so makes things quite clammy inside.

The amount of water that the jacket holds is not insignificant. I have to line the floor with towels to absorb all the water.

My choice is currently between the Halvarssons and a Rev'It Horizon jacket. I prefer the Halvarssons with the changeable outers but do know for a fact that the outer of the Rev'It has the waterproof membrane laminated to the outer and thus doesn't absorb water and instead just sheds it straight off. I'm really leaning towards the Halvarssons but must say if it "wets out" then there's no point me buying it - we sure get a lot of rain here in the UK.


Thanks,
Dae.

[makinwaves]

Ahh, I see. On the Halvarssons the waterproof (winter) and vented (summer) layers are on the outside. The inner layers provide the majority of the protection. So no, the waterproof outer layer does not hold water as you describe with your current jacket.

You can almost think of the Halvarssons waterproof layer as similar to a goretex rain jacket. It repels and sheds water, but still breathes. But if you're walking outside in the rain with it on and come inside immediately and hang it up, yes it's going to drip, but mostly that's just water still being shed off. Not that it was retained within the materials.

[daesimps]

Thanks for the clarification.

The current jacket definitely holds a lot of water. It will definitely shed a number of pints, if not more, when hung up and is sometimes still damp the following day even when left in the living room overnight.

I've followed Gore-Tex's recommendations of cleaning and re-waterproofing with Nik-Wak products which has helped a little, but I suppose the fact that the membrane is inside and separate from the outer layer is fundamentally flawed and will never be as good as a laminated membrane as it will never do anything to stop water being absorbed.

Gore-Tex Pro-Shell is laminated to the outer layer and doesn't suffer from the wetting-out but I can't find a jacket that is in my price range. The decent Pro-Shell stuff is too close to £1,000 for my liking as it tends to be makes like Rukka. I know they will last years but I can't bring myself to spend more on a jacket that I paid for the wife's first bike!

[JTT]

Dae,

I think I understand what your saying, but to my knowledge the only thing that is truly what your looking for it the GoreTex Proshell stuff. I have the Cyclops and to the best of my knowledge, the actual membrane is on the inside of the outer fabric (laminated to the fabric). I too have ridden in LOTS of rain. The outer side of the outer fabric (shell) does get slightly wet, but is made of a nylon material that really doesn't absorb much water. I have never treated mine with with Nikwax, yet it still doesn't get sopping wet like some I've had. It isn't completely dry though like I am told the Proshell stuff is (like a rubber rain suit)

[levain]

Originally Posted by JTT

It isn't completely dry though like I am told the Proshell stuff is (like a rubber rain suit)

Don't believe the hype. I'll never forget riding through 180 miles of snow showers last spring. Rukka Armas (proshell) on top. 303 treated Motoport stretch pants on bottom. I got to the hotel, hung up the suit, took a shower and overindulged at the brewpub When I got back that night, the Rukka jacket was still soaking wet and dripping. The motoport pants were dry.

It sounds to me like the OP has one of the suits with a z-liner, which is basically the same thing as a removable membrane that you can't remove. Also, the same as in my Motoport. Difference though is that, properly treated, the motoport fabric really doesn't absorb much, if any water. I would guess that treating the outer with Nikwax or similar will help tremendously.

Joe, we're in the house. Time for a trip south for some pizza

[AceRider01]

1) All goretex and similar WP but "breathable"material are very delicate and are always bonded to inside of of garment to protect it from damages from scratching, UV and bugs.

2) The outer material of the bonded jacket/pants will have to be permeable for air and water to follow through to get to goretex membrane which then stops the water but allow some air through. Permeable material will absorb water regardless; This is why you feel dry on the inside but the outer-materials is soaked

3) Because gore-tex materials stops a fair bit of air, the "cross air flow" through the whole garment is going to be very limited and evaporation is one way - it takes a lot longer of outer-material to dry itself.

4) any material which is totally permeable will get soaked quickly but would dry quickly as well if there is air flow and evaporation going on such as inside air conditioned environment. Garment which relies a separate liner to provide water-proof-bility can dry a lot quicker if you take the WP liner out and hang it up.

5) garment which is unpermeable, or plastic(ish) will not let water or air through and water shreds straight off - it just wont soak as much - but if you are wearing and there is heat, you will be sauna-ing.

6) Products like Niki-Wax, when used in sufficient quantity, provides an additional layer to reduce water absorption but also further reduce air permeability.

7) while there is some breath-ability with goretex and other similar material, do NOT believe you will experience the same airflow / breathability as a loosely weaved material - goretex stops probably 85% of airflow - my gut feel, not a scientific measurement.

8) The design means goretex membrane bonded stuff is always go to get soaked on the outside given sufficient rain and will dry a little slower - goretex liner type garment will get soaked even more but will dry quicker if you are able to dry it with liner out.

[JTT]

Originally Posted by levain

Don't believe the hype. I'll never forget riding through 180 miles of snow showers last spring. Rukka Armas (proshell) on top. 303 treated Motoport stretch pants on bottom. I got to the hotel, hung up the suit, took a shower and overindulged at the brewpub When I got back that night, the Rukka jacket was still soaking wet and dripping. The motoport pants were dry.

It sounds to me like the OP has one of the suits with a z-liner, which is basically the same thing as a removable membrane that you can't remove. Also, the same as in my Motoport. Difference though is that, properly treated, the motoport fabric really doesn't absorb much, if any water. I would guess that treating the outer with Nikwax or similar will help tremendously.

Joe, we're in the house. Time for a trip south for some pizza

Awesome! Just thinking about you and the oven the other day at a local wood fired pizzeria!

[ranmafan]

Got my suit a little while back from biker-land (plus the legendary Halvarssons neckwarmer)...

Originally Posted by AceRider01

It's correct the pants does NOT directly zips to the jacket - the halvassions engineer design was meant for:

1) Safety Pants to zip into a outer pants, and safety jacket to zip into an outer jacket;

2) the outer jacket zip to outer pants

This isn't correct, at least not for my L1 suit. The outer jacket (Cyklop) does NOT have a 360 zipper at all - the outer pants (Plexi) zip into the safety jacket using the outer (bigger) zipper. The inner (smaller) zipper on the Plexi pants also came with a mating half. No clue.

Originally Posted by JTT

For what its worth, I also have long arms and found the Halvarssons to be nice and long in the arms. I usually had to buy a size larger in jackets to get the sleeve length. I would think EU50 should be about right, based on my experience with my EU56 (44-45" chest).

So I ordered size 50 pants/jacket with Cyklop/Plexi outers. Sadly, no bike to test it out on for another few weeks, so take below as "preliminary" impressions...

Overall:
Indeed, the fit is pretty much in line with what the sizing chart recommends (again, ignoring height). The L1 "hi-art" fabric is thinner than I thought - more like a thin hoodie than bathrobe, I guess? L2-rated for everything except abrasion resistance, by the way.

I find that my regular (size long-S, nice and long sleeves) gore-tex hiking jacket goes over the safety inner comfortably, but the pants... no way. Jeans would probably have to be 2-3 sizes bigger, look stupid (the suit looks bulky enough with the Halvarssons' shells as it is), and not be comfortable at all.

Pants:

Quite happy with the fit - probably the best I've had so far. Waist a little bigger than I need (as expected), but the length looks just about right. Pleasantly surprised - I had to order "tall" sizes before. Had to adjust hip armour (thick, solid chunks of rubber - see pics) quite a bit. There are two measly thigh vents (one per leg) that probably won't do much.

Jacket:

Quoting a Google translation of some Italian comment:
Cyklop jacket: the more I see, the more I like!

Cyklop has vents! The long underarm type, like on a hiking/rain jacket. Never mentioned in description. The colour in the pics is wrong - the upper part has no orange/yellow to it, it's the usual painfully bright "safety lime". It also feels softer to the touch than the rest of the jacket, and stinks like a plastic rain suit.

The inner jacket fits alright and is pretty restrictive (i.e. just about lets me put a helmet on), but the sleeve length... Hmm. Inner is way short, probably by design, and the outer is barely adequate when leaned forward (see pic). Mind you, it'd probably be okay on a more upright/standard bike (reaches almost to my knuckles when standing), and it's better than the (size M) Cortech Accelerator jacket that I had.

Now, the bad points, all concerning the outer shell...
- fit: as ugly and plain/square/baggy as it could possibly be, IMHO. I'm no tailor, but seriously... there's no taper towards waistline, and it bunches up in front *very* easily. "Fat guy with a giraffe neck"-type of fit.
- collar: needlessly high, and the little stretch panel doesn't help much. The velcro here is also weak.
- armour pockets: what for??

I can certainly see why it's being discontinued.

It's usable, but it feels like they took a low-end rain jacket and just slapped some zippers/adjusters to avoid properly tailoring it to the right size. A shame, because it's otherwise their best-looking shell...



Forgive the poor picture quality - still have no real camera on hand...

[JTT]

Originally Posted by ranmafan

Now, the bad points, all concerning the outer shell...
- fit: as ugly and plain/square/baggy as it could possibly be, IMHO. I'm no tailor, but seriously... there's no taper towards waistline, and it bunches up in front *very* easily. "Fat guy with a giraffe neck"-type of fit.
- collar: needlessly high, and the little stretch panel doesn't help much. The velcro here is also weak.
- armour pockets: what for??

Interesting. Maybe a different cut on the smaller size. My 56 is quite tapered and neck is perfect height for me (average, not linebacker, or tribal). You may find you appreciate the neck more in your first cold morning ride or rain storm. Of course, I might be a freak as I also like Aerostich collars

[ranmafan]

Originally Posted by JTT

Interesting. Maybe a different cut on the smaller size. My 56 is quite tapered and neck is perfect height for me (average, not linebacker, or tribal). You may find you appreciate the neck more in your first cold morning ride or rain storm. Of course, I might be a freak as I also like Aerostich collars

Oh, I do actually like high collars (the removable one on the Teknic Freeway is awesome, just for reference. I miss it a lot.). But this one's cutting way too much into my neck.

Probably goes together with the "too long in front" issue.

[AceRider01]

one of the reason i decide against buying the outer stuff - i just wear any discounted "fashionable" motorcycle jackets and pants in a larger size.

[makinwaves]

Originally Posted by JTT

Interesting. Maybe a different cut on the smaller size. My 56 is quite tapered and neck is perfect height for me (average, not linebacker, or tribal). You may find you appreciate the neck more in your first cold morning ride or rain storm. Of course, I might be a freak as I also like Aerostich collars

I gotta agree with JTT. I really like my Cyklop outer and thought it was quite tapered too. I don't like the velcro on the collar as I find it too small and hard to fasten on the fly, but otherwise no problems with the neck height. Ranmafan, have you played with the snaps and straps on the side?

[maikhoepfel]

I inquired about pants in size 48 and got this reply.

Hi,

Safety pants are sold out in size 48 and for the moment they have not decided if they are going to re-produce safety jacket and pants.

Med vänlig hälsning / With best regards
Urban

Sounds to me like they're considering discontinuing the product altogether! Now I'm not sure if I should still make the investment... but there's no good alternatives, is there? I like them both for their safety, but also for the fact that the outside won't soak up with water, but I can still change to a very airy version without membrane without much hassle (unlike Gore Tex laminate solutions).