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Old 04-22-2007, 04:21 PM   #91
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Thank you, Flowbee! - the photos, especially.



I've been looking at the Jofama catalog, for days, and there are some other things I'm interested in as well. The HILL or MESH CLASSIC gloves have HI ART in the palms ... I think they might be good for my dual sport rides, instead of my leather mx gloves. And the Lindstrands TAAL offroad pants, with HI ART and DRYWAY+ detachable membrane.
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:32 PM   #92
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So, have either of you had some hot weather riding in with Halvarssons yet? How well did it do, traffic/moving, and how hot was it? Does the black seem to collect the heat?


Does anyone have any links to tests done on it? For some reason I can never get the links at Ridetriangles to work, the PDF's from there always stop loading.

I read this thread a week or so ago and should again to pick up what I forgot...

But I remember something about abrasion being in the teens of seconds. Is a second in that test meant to replicate a second sliding on pavement? Or is it more of just a standard they set where the material has to survive so many seconds, and it doesn't really match real world abrasion in terms of time? Has any test or review estimated what length/speed of slide this suit could take?

Can the jacket be zipped to other pants, such as Motoport?

What levels are the armor approved for? I thought there were only two levels, but apparently Limbs have 3 levels and back protectors have 2 levels. However, there is a stricter medical guideline that it could still reach that would essentially be a third level. So what level is the Halvarssons limb protectors? What level is the back protector, and does it meet the medically recommended level?

I read about the above mentioned levels here...
http://www.fireblades.org/forums/rid...rotectors.html

It mentions BKS as the only company to reach the 3rd level for Limb armor, and also reaches the medically recommended level for back protectors. Also, the thread is a couple years old, so maybe a new armor system has provided these levels, if so, who?

For the Halvarssons owners, can their armor be removed and fitted with BKS you think (assuming that Halv doesn't already meet these standards)?
http://www.bksleather.co.uk/access.htm

Sorry to ask so many q's and hope I didn't derail too much. It's just that I'm looking for the BEST gear for protection and have it be all-weather as well. So it might be Motorport, it might be Halvarssons, it might be Motoport with different armor, etc. I don't know, hope someone can help.
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:56 PM   #93
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Being in the Great Lakes region, I haven't had a chance to do any true midwestern summer testing yet. Yesterday and today were probably the hottest days so far this year, and we didn't reach 80F.

Yesterday I went out for some rides around town on the KTM in 74F sunny weather. The vented mesh panel liners breathe as well as you'd expect from a 30% mesh material. I did stop at several long stoplights and could tell that this system would probably suck in 94F / midwestern humidity. The safety layer is very much like a very heavy fleece layer - its almost like a berber carpet in weight. My heavy Hein Gericke Dakar jacket is similar in weight! Once worn the weight disappears, but carrying the thing around / donning it is good exercise.

So a heavy looped synthetic layer next to the skin. This isn't a cotton t-shirt, so that much trapped air is bound to have a significant R-value, and this would be 'non-ideal' sitting an traffic on a hot August afternoon. OTOH, once you're moving, its like somebody has sprayed you with freon. It breathes extremely well. Any sweat would immediately begin to evaporate/ cool you. They key would seem to be to keep moving.

When I wear a Vanson CRSV perforated jacket in hot August weather, I bake when stopped. Once I get moving everything is great - but I learn to loathe stoplights.

Tomorrow and the rest of the week is to be 60s and rainy. I switched out the shells for DryWay and hope to have rainy weather reports soon...


A comment about bulk - I'm a older phart and my bikes have rational riding positions. There have been comments about the safety layers having too much material behind the knee. I don't find this a problem, but when I folded my legs up enough to simulate a sportbike/rearsets, I could definitely feel the material bunching up behind my knees. This would not be an ideal suit for someone folded up on a Ducati or GSXR. Again, its not a problem on my bikes.

edit - add: the safety layer pants came with CE hip protector pads, which I found to be stiff / binding in their as-installed location. When sitting on the ST1100, the hip pads actually interfered with my ability to comfortably sit down in the normal riding position on the bike. They came out almost immediately. I haven't looked into putting them back into the pants in another position, as I believe the heavy jersey knit material would provide as much protection as I want to this part of my body. FWIW, my old 1-piece 'stich came with hip pads, and I found those annoying as well. I removed them on the second day of ownership. So I guess I have a problem with hip padding. OTOH, when I high sided the ST in Oct '05 I was thrown onto my side/back. I had some serious bruises on my hips and butt. ... but nothing broken... ymmv. I'll trade comfort against protection for this location.

More later...
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Old 04-22-2007, 11:53 PM   #94
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I took the coccyx protector out of my Forcefield underpants. It felt like I'd injured my buttbone. (Although offroad /dirt roads on my KDX, I didn't notice it, not compared to the rest of my arse anyway.)

Nothing with serious protection is going to be ok when not moving, especially when it's humid heat. A typical mesh jacket with armour would still be unpleasant, but that's nowhere near as good for protection. It is a major concern for me. 99% of the time I'm riding in day temps of 20 C and higher, and it doesn't go below about 13-15 at night. It's shorts and t-shirt land, sometimes you see someone wearing a leather jacket. And my work commute is only about 6km. So I wonder if I'll be able /willing to put on all the Halvarssons gear for that. So I'm quite interested in the Lindstrands Fokker cargo pants and the Taall offroad pants, that have HI ART in the zone 1 areas. Then again, it's not the pants that bother me in the heat; I don't even mind leather; it's the top that gets uncomfortable.
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:12 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
For some reason I can never get the links at Ridetriangles to work, the PDF's from there always stop loading.
Something wrong your side. I just checked; it's too big for me for me to email it to you; the limit here is 3mb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
But I remember something about abrasion being in the teens of seconds. Is a second in that test meant to replicate a second sliding on pavement?
Yes. The CE tests are. The RiDE Magazine tests don't give seconds, they give points, like 10/10 for the Halvarssons Safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
Has any test or review estimated what length/speed of slide this suit could take?
The standard levels are 7 seconds and 12 seconds. The Halvarsons Safety meets/exceeds the 12 seconds. The 12 seconds required for a slide starting at 110kmh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
Can the jacket be zipped to other pants, such as Motoport?
Either modify it if the zips don't match, or just use the crotch straps.

The only thing like a "medical level" / spec I've seen is where they explain, like on the BKS website, that to absorb enough force to prevent injury, a back protector would need to be about 6" thick (or something like that.)
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:13 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Varnsverry
Sorry. It wasn't me. A case of mistaken identity?
Sorry for the confusion Paul, your name came up in the conversation about safety testing and I was sure that Graham had said that you had been in the shop, on a warm day, with the kit on. I'll query it when I go back there. G.
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:18 AM   #97
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Questions for Cat, Maikinwaves, flowbee et al....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat

The Halvarssons Police Coated Jacket is a high visibility wind and waterproof outer jacket that is worn over the Safety Jacket.





The Halvarssons Police Vented Jacket is a high visibility outer jacket that has ventilation mesh in sleeves and sides.




First of all, thanks a million for starting/contributing to an excellent thread.

Pictured above, is essentially the set up I want, minus the police badge, epilettes and chequered strip at the bottom.

I had almost disregarded the Halvarssons safety jacket because I want simplicity. I want one "do it all" jacket in Hi-Viz with the best safety features available. Halvarssons Safety Jacket system just seemed too complicated. I would have had to shell out for 4 jackets, the Safety Jacket, the waterproof jacket, the mesh jacket, and the Hi-Viz Halogen jacket. I figured it would be much simpler just to get a Darien Light with electric liner for cold weather and be done with it. However, I'm uneasy about the Darien's crash effectiveness. I don't think it's in the same league as the Halvarssons Safety Jacket.

The halogen jacket doesn't have enough reflective material for my liking and the full mesh jacket isn't Hi-Viz enough for me.

However, these Police issue jackets look like just the ticket though. The outer jackets are worn directly over the Safety Jacket. I could cope with the inconveinence of carrying around one when the other was being worn.

Now, my question is: How would I get a hold of these jackets? most police suppliers will not sell to joe public, for obvious reasons. If I could get a hold of them I'd get them altered to remove the police tags, shoulder epiletts and chequered strip then I could stop wasting hours on ADVrider reading these threads over and over.

What do ye think?
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:06 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
So, have either of you had some hot weather riding in with Halvarssons yet? How well did it do, traffic/moving, and how hot was it? Does the black seem to collect the heat?


Does anyone have any links to tests done on it? For some reason I can never get the links at Ridetriangles to work, the PDF's from there always stop loading.

I read this thread a week or so ago and should again to pick up what I forgot...

But I remember something about abrasion being in the teens of seconds. Is a second in that test meant to replicate a second sliding on pavement? Or is it more of just a standard they set where the material has to survive so many seconds, and it doesn't really match real world abrasion in terms of time? Has any test or review estimated what length/speed of slide this suit could take?

Can the jacket be zipped to other pants, such as Motoport?

What levels are the armor approved for? I thought there were only two levels, but apparently Limbs have 3 levels and back protectors have 2 levels. However, there is a stricter medical guideline that it could still reach that would essentially be a third level. So what level is the Halvarssons limb protectors? What level is the back protector, and does it meet the medically recommended level?

I read about the above mentioned levels here...
http://www.fireblades.org/forums/rid...rotectors.html

It mentions BKS as the only company to reach the 3rd level for Limb armor, and also reaches the medically recommended level for back protectors. Also, the thread is a couple years old, so maybe a new armor system has provided these levels, if so, who?

For the Halvarssons owners, can their armor be removed and fitted with BKS you think (assuming that Halv doesn't already meet these standards)?
http://www.bksleather.co.uk/access.htm

Sorry to ask so many q's and hope I didn't derail too much. It's just that I'm looking for the BEST gear for protection and have it be all-weather as well. So it might be Motorport, it might be Halvarssons, it might be Motoport with different armor, etc. I don't know, hope someone can help.
Excellent post. And it sums up many of my recent thoughts. I was hoping to upgrade my armor in the near future. I have a lot of the same questions that you do. I was looking at TPro, BKE, Halvarssons, and BMW for armor.


I noticed that the "Fireblades.org" post does mention that TPro in addition to BKS also meets the 3rd level for type-b limb protection as is shown here:

www.johnsonleather.com/type-b_limbs.htm -

"
EN1621-1: 2006 requires that given an impact energy of 50 joules, no more than 35kN of force should be transmitted. TPro Four Layer "Armour-Flex" outperforms the EN1621-1: 2006 by 95% (100 joules)"


I was wondering how the Halvarssons armor compared as well as the newer BMW NP Armor:

"... use of CE approved [BMW] NP protective armor in the shoulders, elbows and spine. The CE approved NP protectors are a BMW exclusive in several of the 2006 BMW jackets and pants. Offering the highest level of impact energy management currently on the market. The BMW NP protectors are also anatomically fit to left and right sides of the body. Soft and pliable making them feel almost non-existent when wearing the jacket, but able to control abrupt impacts better than any other energy management system currently available in any jacket from any other manufacturer. The spine protector uses a four-layer sandwiched center tappering out to a two-layer outer edge of the NP armor system which wraps over the shoulder blades, narrowing slightly in the center like a figure eight and then widening again in the lower section to protect the lower back and kidney area. When you put the jacket on for the first time, you feel the protective cocoon."


The NP armor is featured in this video for the BMW Boulder Jacket (1:40-1:10):

http://ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=43913

It's also featured in this video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NiSXiu0LJ0&mode=related&search=


www.ascycles.com sells both BMW NP Armor and TPro. I don't know of any other dealers that do. I plan to do some emailing to get as much information as possible to compare these armors regarding protection, price, etc. Another concern I have is compatibilty with my existing jackets. The armors never all seem to be the same size between brands and that makes it more difficult.
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Old 04-28-2007, 10:28 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR-ELEVENTY-TEN
Now, my question is: How would I get a hold of these jackets? most police suppliers will not sell to joe public, for obvious reasons. If I could get a hold of them I'd get them altered to remove the police tags, shoulder epiletts and chequered strip then I could stop wasting hours on ADVrider reading these threads over and over.

What do ye think?
Sorry, no idea. If it was me I'd try to email both Halvarssons (www.jofama.se) and that police supplier to see if there is a way to get a civilian version in the same colours. I've heard that Halvarssons may be coming out with more colour options for the top layer (i.e., Airy, Folio, etc), so you could always wait and see, or also ask them about time frames.

Good luck! The gear is worth it!
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Old 04-29-2007, 08:03 PM   #100
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Review mentioning the Safety Suit (not in English)

What does this say?

www.rukka.com/lfashion/rukka/rukkafiles.nsf/pvid/2007423163416313/$file/motorrad_9_07.pdf

from (http://www.rukka.com/lfashion/rukka/...t&Expand=1.6.7)
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Old 04-29-2007, 11:36 PM   #101
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CE Standards & Halvarssons

Lochlyn and KeepItSafe:

I pulled out some of the tech info that came with the Halvarssons Safety jacket and although there are no numbers provided from the tests, the "levels" that the safety gear passed are provided (which is actually a mandatory requirement).

OK, first a primer on the CE standards (source: www.cen.eu and www.pva-ppe.org.uk/standards.htm)
  • EN 1621-1 (EN 1621-1:1997) - Limbs (knees, elbows, shoulders). Technically, either it passes or it doesn't, however there seems to be some literature out there that says you can have higher performance levels if you test at higher energy (50, 75 and 100 joules). Almost all manufacturers seem to state whether it passes or not without referencing if the higher performance levels were tried or achieved (exception, BKS).
  • EN 1621-2 (EN 1621-2:2003/AC:2006) - Back. 2 levels (sort of), "Level 1" and "Level 2". Level 2 is better in which protectors must not allow more than 9 kN of energy to be transmitted from a 50 Joule impact. A pseudo third level is associated with other industry standards (horse fall protection, martial arts) and requires less than 4 kN of energy transmitted.
  • EN 13595-1 (EN 13595-1:2002) - Clothing. 2 levels (sort of), "Level 1" and "Level 2". Level 1 is rated as protective to speeds up to 30 mph, Level 2 to "higher speeds". Level 2 will protect you in high speed accidents, but the material will likely not be reusable. For even higher protection (re-use?), a third level is available through a different standard called the Cambridge Standard. Note that EN 13595-1 had 3 key components, abrasion strength, tear resistance and seam burst. It's possible to meet different levels, but still pass the overall standard. For example, you could have abrasion be rated at Level 1, tear at Level 2 and seam at Level 1, and the jacket would still pass as a EN 13595-1 approved garment. However, it has to list what levels it passed for each of the 3 key components.
Halvarssons Safety Jacket ratings - According to the info sheet and the jacket label, here's the Halvarssons ratings:
  • EN 1621-1 (Limbs) - Passes.
  • EN 1621-2 (Back) - I dunno! When I bought the jacket I didn't realize you had to buy the optional back protector as well! Looking at their catalogue however, the protector that fits into the jacket is Level 1. They also sell a Level 2 back protector which is much larger and doesn't fit into the internal pocket of the jacket (it comes with a harness you strap on).
  • EN 13595-1 (Clothing) - Exceeds Level 2 for all categories (abrasion, tear and seam burst).
Are there better limb protectors available in the market? Maybe, debateable.
Are there better back protectors available? A few.
Are there any other textile garments (available on the market) that exceed the EN 13595 standards? No.
Are there any textile garments that pass all 3 CE standards for sale on the market? No.

I think the positive thing of all this is that Halvarssons has set the bar to pass, and it seems that other manufacturers are starting to slowly follow suit. At the very least, the future of motorcycle clothing should only improve. Hopefully one day the North American manufacturers get their act together and follow the European lead!

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Old 04-30-2007, 02:15 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves
  • Note that EN 13595-1 had 3 key components, abrasion strength, tear resistance and seam burst. It's possible to meet different levels, but still pass the overall standard. For example, you could have abrasion be rated at Level 1, tear at Level 2 and seam at Level 1, and the jacket would still pass as a EN 13595-1 approved garment. However, it has to list what levels it passed for each of the 3 key components
  • I hadn't thought of that. ...Like the RiDE Magazine tests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves
Are there better limb protectors available in the market? Maybe, debateable.
The Halvarssons ones are licenced from Forcefield/T-Pro - or made by them (I never seem to get that straight) and so are Kushitani's, and the Hein Gericke ones too, apparently - I saw that somewhere a couple days ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves
Are there better back protectors available? A few.
The Forcefield one fits the Safety jacket, apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makinwaves
Hopefully one day the North American manufacturers get their act together and follow the European lead!
The Halvarssons gear (or most of it) is made in Sweden. (Or the construction is done in Sweden, with the materials imported.) I guess the same applies to the Scotts Leathers and BKS EN 15395 textile gear. ...What I'm getting at is that there might be issues with getting stuff made in S.Asia, to spec, with the tendency to change subcontractors, that it would continue to meet the standard.

PS: Good idea, putting the EN numbers in the thread. Saves me having to look them up. I'm just beginning to remember them lately.
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Old 04-30-2007, 02:32 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR-ELEVENTY-TEN
The halogen jacket doesn't have enough reflective material for my liking and the full mesh jacket isn't Hi-Viz enough for me.
[snip]
Now, my question is: How would I get a hold of these jackets? most police suppliers will not sell to joe public, for obvious reasons. If I could get a hold of them I'd get them altered to remove the police tags, shoulder epiletts and chequered strip...
In the Jofama catalog, the full mesh jacket, in black and in hi-vis, the hi-vis one has the epaulettes like the police ones, and the black one doesn't, and the hi-vis ones seems to have the same reflective strips as the police one but without the police stripes, the chequered stripes.
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Old 04-30-2007, 03:47 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat
In the Jofama catalog, the full mesh jacket, in black and in hi-vis, the hi-vis one has the epaulettes like the police ones, and the black one doesn't, and the hi-vis ones seems to have the same reflective strips as the police one but without the police stripes, the chequered stripes.
Thanks CAT. That would seem to be the ticket. I could always have the epaulettes removed. I've ordered a catalogue so I'll see for myself what's available.
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Old 04-30-2007, 05:09 AM   #105
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It's got a third reflective strip instead of the police chequered stripe.



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