XR600R vs XR650L vs XR650R motors

[Flatulator]

Originally Posted by Sniper X

But, I can say if you try to win Baja with ANY almost stock bike against a totally stock XR650R you would loose badly. They were designed as was the XR600R to race in the desert and the XR650R was king of the desert.............so was the XR600R....long live the KING!

bullshit bullshit bullshit

Perhaps you have never heard of the KX500 ?

any virtually stock KX500 is MORE than a match for any XR600

and for that matter an XR650R - or - I give no advantage to an XR650R over a big KX - the KX has 5RWHP more and weighs 40 pounds less.

Yeah - maybe they quit making the KX500 - but then again they have quit making all the bikes in 'this argument'.

The only reason Honda won Baja so many consecutive times in recent years -- was that the Kawasaki factory stopped running it (and winning it 10 consecutive times)

How many XR600's blew their engines trying to catch the leading KX500's ?
LOTS and LOTS of them (including the factory Honda efforts) - finally Kawasaki stopped - what was left to prove ?

and the factory winning KX's were only barely modified from stock - they were not trick factory 'specials'

this rhmc628 has his head stuck in his mommies marsupial pouch
I'd have to drink a case of beer to be that dumb

I guess Honda should've consulted him before they mad such a "big mistake"
(the XR650R)

by the way - I think both the XR600 and the 650R are great motorcycles.

the huge wave of modern lightweight 400's/450's is what put a serious slam on the 650R's popularity potential

But which is the better bike for what most people HERE would use them for ?

have a nice weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekend

[lewismedlock]

I have a 2000 XR650L with carb and exhaust mods, and a stock 1986 XR600R, both purchased new. I love 'em both, but I wish the 600 motor was in the 650 frame. It revs quicker, and has a upper RPM surge that the 650 can't match.

[rmhrc628]

Originally Posted by lewismedlock

I have a 2000 XR650L with carb and exhaust mods, and a stock 1986 XR600R, both purchased new. I love 'em both, but I wish the 600 motor was in the 650 frame. It revs quicker, and has a upper RPM surge that the 650 can't match.

Funny you say that lewis. I had to install a 650L CDI on my 628R motor and the power drop was immense.

Only last night was I able to rewire the 600R CDI to the HRC engine and the difference is huge!!!

[wickedsprint]

Originally Posted by rmhrc628

Funny you say that lewis. I had to install a 650L CDI on my 628R motor and the power drop was immense.

Only last night was I able to rewire the 600R CDI to the HRC engine and the difference is huge!!!

So maybe for 650L riders a 600R CDI might give them a nice power boost?

[rmhrc628]

Originally Posted by wickedsprint

So maybe for 650L riders a 600R CDI might give them a nice power boost?

wicked sprint - as you may recall I had to use the 650L CDI to get the estart to fire on the 600R estart - this was due to the 650L CDI beng powered off of 12 volts versus the 600R being 110V AC.

So for 5 months I have never used my 600R CDI - until I rewired the 600R CDI on the weekend. The presure to make the switch back came from the fact that I felt my FCRMX carbed and opened up 628 motor was "constrained" - remember I had never ridden it post estart with the 600R CDI.

Since the estart project took 6 months I was only going on seat of the pants - I really felt though the 650L CDI was to balem for the lack of power - basically like somene had put a clamp on the motor and cut 20-30% of expected power.

So now I have swapped back and the change in immense in power - massive midranbge hit and the motor just revs and revs and goes like stink!!! (which is what it should have done with the mods on my bike)

Now as to whether 650L guys can swap I'll say this - it's a big swap going from 650L to 600R CDI if your original bike is a 650L.

Bascially I only run the 650l starter gear bolted to the 600R flywheel (which we removed tonnes of material from) and the 600R stator.

You 650L guys need to experiment with how you will power your 600R CDI cos the stock ignition system does not produce 110V AC - your stator wires go straight into the finned regualtor/rectifier. So what you could do is require your 650L stator so that some of the AC power goes to the 600R CDI - it could be done I reckon. On my 600R we have a dual power system - AC for head and tail lights and CDI duties and DC for other road stuff.

I would investigate the respective wiring systems - cos if the 600R CDI works for my 628 HRC engine (which has bigger compression) then it surely must work for the 650L - even though the engines are night and day.

[XR650L_Dave]

Originally Posted by rmhrc628

wicked sprint - as you may recall I had to use the 650L CDI to get the estart to fire on the 600R estart - this was due to the 650L CDI beng powered off of 12 volts versus the 600R being 110V AC.

So for 5 months I have never used my 600R CDI - until I rewired the 600R CDI on the weekend. The presure to make the switch back came from the fact that I felt my FCRMX carbed and opened up 628 motor was "constrained" - remember I had never ridden it post estart with the 600R CDI.

Since the estart project took 6 months I was only going on seat of the pants - I really felt though the 650L CDI was to balem for the lack of power - basically like somene had put a clamp on the motor and cut 20-30% of expected power.

So now I have swapped back and the change in immense in power - massive midranbge hit and the motor just revs and revs and goes like stink!!! (which is what it should have done with the mods on my bike)

Now as to whether 650L guys can swap I'll say this - it's a big swap going from 650L to 600R CDI if your original bike is a 650L.

Bascially I only run the 650l starter gear bolted to the 600R flywheel (which we removed tonnes of material from) and the 600R stator.

You 650L guys need to experiment with how you will power your 600R CDI cos the stock ignition system does not produce 110V AC - your stator wires go straight into the finned regualtor/rectifier. So what you could do is require your 650L stator so that some of the AC power goes to the 600R CDI - it could be done I reckon. On my 600R we have a dual power system - AC for head and tail lights and CDI duties and DC for other road stuff.

I would investigate the respective wiring systems - cos if the 600R CDI works for my 628 HRC engine (which has bigger compression) then it surely must work for the 650L - even though the engines are night and day.

Presumably, the 600R CDI has a more aggressive advance curve.

Gee, run the XRL 12V into a custom inverter to give the 100Vac...

Of course the 600R CDI probably has a rectifier stage 1st thing, and 100VDC would probably work.

maybe an XRL CDI has a magic wire to cut (internally, after de-potting)? Prob. too much to hope for.

Anyone have a CDI schematic for either?

If someone would donate me a dead 600R CDI and a dead XRL CDI, I'd take 'em apart and try to pin them out.

Damn, there's the long-lost never-done XRL upgrade part, the CDI...

Dave

[rmhrc628]

Originally Posted by XR650L_Dave

Presumably, the 600R CDI has a more aggressive advance curve.

Gee, run the XRL 12V into a custom inverter to give the 100Vac...

Of course the 600R CDI probably has a rectifier stage 1st thing, and 100VDC would probably work.

maybe an XRL CDI has a magic wire to cut (internally, after de-potting)? Prob. too much to hope for.

Anyone have a CDI schematic for either?

If someone would donate me a dead 600R CDI and a dead XRL CDI, I'd take 'em apart and try to pin them out.

Damn, there's the long-lost never-done XRL upgrade part, the CDI...

Dave

Dave

I can offer the following on the comparisons:

1. XR600R CDI is about 1/3 the size and weight of the XR650L CDI
2. The plug pattern is indentical
3. The 650L CDI has a stepper that lifts the voltage from 12 volt to 300-400 volts for the firing of the bike.
4. The 650L CDI operates on 12 volt in - the 600R CDI operates on 90-110VAC in.

All i did for rewiring was to remove the 12 volt in lead and plug in the lead straight off the stator. That then enabed me to power the 600R CDI from kicking.

[XR650L_Dave]

Originally Posted by rmhrc628

Dave

I can offer the following on the comparisons:

1. XR600R CDI is about 1/3 the size and weight of the XR650L CDI
2. The plug pattern is indentical
3. The 650L CDI has a stepper that lifts the voltage from 12 volt to 300-400 volts for the firing of the bike.
4. The 650L CDI operates on 12 volt in - the 600R CDI operates on 90-110VAC in.

All i did for rewiring was to remove the 12 volt in lead and plug in the lead straight off the stator. That then enabed me to power the 600R CDI from kicking.

So putting a 650L stepper onto a 600R CDI should make for a swap-

Is the stepper an identifiable part on the 650L CDI (once the cover is off)?

OK, so would there be a market for a step-up inverter kit?

And, I wonder if the stepper is the part on the L CDI that fails?

Dave

[oldxr]

old xrs dont die easy-my 1987 at coco's in baja

[Trailsurfer]

Originally Posted by rmhrc628

Not the point.

Read my post.

How many GNCCs? ZERO The 600? 8
How much versatility? LESS

Electric start? NO.

Lifespan? LESS than the bike it replaced.

Simple. It's been a dissappoinment. Maybe the XR600 was too good and we were all spoilt?

What the hell are you thinking? When was the last time an XR600 won any race?

Stop, your killing me.

[rmhrc628]

Originally Posted by XR650L_Dave

So putting a 650L stepper onto a 600R CDI should make for a swap-

Is the stepper an identifiable part on the 650L CDI (once the cover is off)?

OK, so would there be a market for a step-up inverter kit?

And, I wonder if the stepper is the part on the L CDI that fails?

Dave

Dave

Here are the wiring essentials:
(Please check your diagrams as mine were difficult to read)

Both CDIs share idential plug patterns (2+4pin)

XR600R (U Type)
2 wires in from "ignition pulse generator" (1 is Blue/Yellow the other is Green/White)

1 from ground (Green)

1 from igniton coil (looks like Black/Yellow)

1 from exciter coil (located down near stator I beleive) (Black/red)

1 from engine stop switch (Black/white)

Is the pulse generator the thing which powers the XR600 CDI? (from the motion of kicking?)


XR650L (US model)
1 wire in from pulse generator (interesting cf 600R!) - other wire goes to ground) (wire colour - cant read diagram - possibly Blue and yellow)

1 wire to ground (Green)

1 to the clutch and sidestand switches (Green/White)

1 to the starter relay (which is 12 volt power?) and the starter switch (Yellow/Red)

1 to ignition coil (looks like Black/Yellow)

1 to engine stop switch (which is same colour code as on the 600R engine stop switch Black/White)

[XR650L_Dave]

Originally Posted by rmhrc628

Dave

Here are the wiring essentials:
(Please check your diagrams as mine were difficult to read)

Both CDIs share idential plug patterns (2+4pin)

XR600R (U Type)
2 wires in from "ignition pulse generator" (1 is Blue/Yellow the other is Green/White)

1 from ground (Green)

1 from igniton coil (looks like Black/Yellow)

1 from exciter coil (located down near stator I beleive) (Black/red)

1 from engine stop switch (Black/white)

Is the pulse generator the thing which powers the XR600 CDI? (from the motion of kicking?)


XR650L (US model)
1 wire in from pulse generator (interesting cf 600R!) - other wire goes to ground) (wire colour - cant read diagram - possibly Blue and yellow)

1 wire to ground (Green)

1 to the clutch and sidestand switches (Green/White)

1 to the starter relay (which is 12 volt power?) and the starter switch (Yellow/Red)

1 to ignition coil (looks like Black/Yellow)

1 to engine stop switch (which is same colour code as on the 600R engine stop switch Black/White)

The pulse generator tells the CDI when to fire (with advance info fed in from keeping track of the RPM)

Dave

[Flyin Phil]

rmhrc628,

Originally Posted by BCadv

in what sense do you consider the 650 less versatile?

I'm still in the market, and therefore still curious about this.

[Red_Chili]

Mine does everything I ask of it, well. Except for knee-high or higher bouldery trails, but that would be the rider I should think. Neduro rode the wheels off his on Blanca Peak while I was left gasping.
This includes singletrack (tight singletrack mind you) in all conditions, two track, fireroads, roads, commuting...
OK, it's not so great for KLR-level epic long distance rides.
See 'rider' comment above for the explanation.

(I couldn't bear to own a KLR, but that's just me. Perhaps the XR600 is more versatile? Dunno. Ride what you like.)

[GodSilla]

How true. They do, however, get sold by people who obviously didn't deserve them in the first place, to owners who will love them to the grave.
Can't kill 'em with an axe.
Australian Safari (6 - 8,000 k's off-road race through the hell that is the Aussie outback) 10 OUTRIGHT WINS. The rest can bugger off.