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Old 09-16-2011, 03:06 PM   #2221
Davebert
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Get a cheap MIG for tacking if you have to but with the proper clamps and setup, you can easily tack with a TIG. I have both but always go to the TIG.
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:20 AM   #2222
Vicks
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Thx for the welding advise guys.....

I'm also thinking of shapes for the aux rear fuel tanks and i can see that most of the Rally kits offer the below shaped tanks, most notably Mecasystems and i love these shapes. I know that the simplest and easiest shape would be a squared off one with two sheets of metal joined by a flat strip in the middle and weld them all up. But this tank is too beautifull to forget...


sorry for a non welding question, but what Al-alloy are the above tanks made of ? is it possible to form such shapes by a hobby guy without expensive equipment like presses/moulds ? what kind of process is followed to form such shapes ?

I am assuming that these tanks, the above one for eg, is made by welding two halves stamped out of sheet metal (Al alloy of some kind) ?

thx
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Old 09-17-2011, 08:52 AM   #2223
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There are only a few aluminum types that are considered "weldable". They are probably using 6061 as it is weldable and also corrosion resistant. Of course it could easily be some other 6000 series aluminum but 6061 is very common.
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Old 09-17-2011, 06:15 PM   #2224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicks View Post
Is it possible to form such shapes by a hobby guy without expensive equipment like presses/moulds ? what kind of process is followed to form such shapes ?
It depends how far you want to go,a good part of a tank like that could be done on a shot bag with a suitable former like the screw top (valve protector) off a oxygen bottle and handle welded to it.
You would then form the shape you wanted with the alloy plate over the shot bag.
There are also hammer forms and bucks.
I bought the Ron Fournier book in the 1990's.
Very informative.

http://www.fournierenterprises.com/About%20FENT.html

Books

http://www.fournierenterprises.com/cart/home.php?cat=1

Once you can weld/fabricate,if you add sheet metal and machining,the possibilities are endless.

Look up hydro forming also.
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Old 09-17-2011, 06:45 PM   #2225
truck6driver
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I was taught in school the basics of welding. Then on my own I practiced at my own pace. I oxy/acet weld both (fusion and filler), then arc and now I do MIG. The next step is TIG but the welder set up is out of my price range. Hell "My" MIG is a flux core unit but the Hobart and Miller (yes I know they are the same company) MIGs I use at work are what I weld 99% of the time. I'm no expert but you can learn to weld on your own. Find the books or internet material to learn basics and tecniques and practice. I did not learn MIG is the class other than how to set up the machine and run a couple of beads of weld. I did more gas welding than arc too.

Here is a question for the experts.

Trying to modify a set of R1 mufflers to fit my 83' Nighthawk (no aftermarket). After cutting them I see they are actually titanium and not stainless as I thought. Now I cannot weld this. All my reasearch stated that it must be welded in a 100% arcon atmosphere. ie..sealed welding cabinet. For an exhaust system is this an acurate fact or just precaution. I did run a bead of stainless down a scrap piece of pipe with a TIG and it is a nice looking weld but will a TIG weld done outside of a cabinet (and with the correct ti rod) hold and not be brittle? I'm trying to find a shop close by that can make 4 small welds for me on these mufflers so I can ride my bike again.


Thanks
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:21 AM   #2226
NitroAcres
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Bench Welding Ti

Yes, you can bench weld Ti, use a large cup, low amps, the correct wire, run the post flow longer than usual...and leave the area covered with argon.

One other thng, you don't want to put the mufflers in a "strained" position, make sure the mounting bolt holes line up without pressure to make them line up. Most of the repairs I make on Ti exhausts are caused by misaligned mounts.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:52 AM   #2227
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If you can it also helps to set up an argon purge on the inside of the pipe if that is what you are welding. I never welded any Ti but it can be bench welded without the sealed cabinet as long as there is plenty of pre and post argon coverage.
DB
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Old 09-18-2011, 04:10 PM   #2228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebert View Post
If you can it also helps to set up an argon purge on the inside of the pipe if that is what you are welding. I never welded any Ti but it can be bench welded without the sealed cabinet as long as there is plenty of pre and post argon coverage.
DB

Ditto what Davebert said, I do sometimes leave out the obvious...like tying my shoes...oh wait I wear cowboy boots...LOL
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:28 AM   #2229
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Originally Posted by Davebert View Post
Would it be possible to weld a steel 1045 or C45 steel rear sprocket using tig and have successful results? I was thinking I could take the inner ring from one sprocket and the outer ring from another sprocket, and weld them together. The final result would be a pitch change that would effectively take the inner section of one sprocket (520 pitch that fits hub) and change the outer to a 428 pitch (to match oem) on a rear brake conversion. I could buy a kiln if needed for pre and post heat treatment but before I do that I thought I would ask for advice. I can buy custom aluminum rear sprockets all day long but nobody makes/sells steel custom sprockets except the snake doctor.
Thanks,
DB
1045 is a higher carbon steel. You will need to heat it up so high that it will soften the whole sprocket in order to keep it from cracking when the welds cool. You are probably wasting your time. I would just go buy a new sprocket. Or machine a new one out of 1045 and dont weld on it.

I would hesitate to recommend even a seasoned welder to do what you are trying.
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KTM640Dakar screwed with this post 09-21-2011 at 07:52 PM
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:35 PM   #2230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM640Dakar View Post
1045 is a high carbon steel. You will need to heat it up so high that it will soften the whole sprocket in order to keep it from cracking when the welds cool. You are probably wasting your time. I would just go buy a new sprocket. Or machine a new one out of 1045 and dont weld on it.

I would hesitate to recommend even a seasoned welder to do what you are trying.
Hi,
1045 is a medium carbon steel. Benesesso says it should be fine to weld as long as the pre and post heat are done. He has given me the info on the times/temps to do so. I have done a lot more reading and research and I have even purchased the so called correct rod (ER80S-D2) for the job. Of course I will do some destructive testing before actually using the sprocket. I wish I could just find the pre-machined blanks where they had the teeth and I could do the rest. I have a mill but not a CNC mill. I already have an aluminum sprocket but want a steel one for longevity in the sand. I did find one blank but the inner hole for the hub and the bolt holes come fairly close to the teeth so I am still looking for a larger circumference or more tooth count sprocket. Thanks for your concern and your words of wisdom. I take all warnings seriously.
Thanks,
DB
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:09 PM   #2231
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You could have the centers either EDM or WaterJet cut out...then machine them to size, I have done it with some custom offset front sprockets, they weld and work just fine.
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:17 PM   #2232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebert View Post
1045 is a medium carbon steel.DB
Sure is.

That reminded me, I just sent you the last part of my writeup.
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:45 AM   #2233
sailah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebert View Post
Hi,
1045 is a medium carbon steel. Benesesso says it should be fine to weld as long as the pre and post heat are done. He has given me the info on the times/temps to do so. I have done a lot more reading and research and I have even purchased the so called correct rod (ER80S-D2) for the job. Of course I will do some destructive testing before actually using the sprocket. I wish I could just find the pre-machined blanks where they had the teeth and I could do the rest. I have a mill but not a CNC mill. I already have an aluminum sprocket but want a steel one for longevity in the sand. I did find one blank but the inner hole for the hub and the bolt holes come fairly close to the teeth so I am still looking for a larger circumference or more tooth count sprocket. Thanks for your concern and your words of wisdom. I take all warnings seriously.
Thanks,
DB
I understand what you are trying to do. Might I suggest just getting a custom sprocket made? I don't know what type of bike you are working on, but I needed a sprocket to take 530 pitch chain with a ktm 950 hub patttern. With 140 hp, I can't imagine many bikes that would be harder on a chain than my fz1 motor. It's made from 7075 aluminum and holding up great. Cost was about $80 which isn't to much more than a regular one.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:25 AM   #2234
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Originally Posted by NitroAcres View Post
You could have the centers either EDM or WaterJet cut out...then machine them to size, I have done it with some custom offset front sprockets, they weld and work just fine.
Nitro,
I was going to cut them on my lathe. I haven't found anyone local with an EDM or WaterJet machine. I sure wish I had a WaterJet machine but I think they are about $250,000 new. If I had one I could just make the sprocket too. Does an EDM machine leave the same hardened edge like a plasma cutter? I would assume so. What kind of customization do you do to a front sprocket? Just add a spacer? Kind of hard to broach I would think so you must be offsetting the whole sprocket, not doing what I am planning.
DB
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:25 AM   #2235
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Sure is.

That reminded me, I just sent you the last part of my writeup.
Got it. Thanks Benesesso. Don't forget the quiz.
DB
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