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Old 01-19-2012, 04:36 PM   #2401
Ricardo Kuhn
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I ask again, I need help finding a 220 "Female" plug for my 211miller welder

Here is the male plug, yes is a 220 plug but looks like a 110 plug just bigger.


One "ground" round pin and two vertical and parallel blades
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:48 PM   #2402
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Easiest way to figure plugs/holes. We have NEMA naming conventions and of course P is plug R is Receptacles.



Going across the chart, your first plug is a NEMA 6-50P 250V rated to 50 amps, you want a Nema 6-50 R outlet to plug that into.

They gray one looks like a 10-50P, which is probably more often used for dryers.

You have to remember what the plug terminals are.

Welders use the 6-50P it has two 110 Loads, and a Ground, no Neutral, Most 3 plug dryers are Load - Load - Neutral, no ground, or 4 prong Load Load Ground and Neutral.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:00 PM   #2403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P B G View Post
Easiest way to figure plugs/holes. We have NEMA naming conventions and of course P is plug R is Receptacles.



Going across the chart, your first plug is a NEMA 6-50P 250V rated to 50 amps, you want a Nema 6-50 R outlet to plug that into.

They gray one looks like a 10-50P, which is probably more often used for dryers.

You have to remember what the plug terminals are.

Welders use the 6-50P it has two 110 Loads, and a Ground, no Neutral, Most 3 plug dryers are Load - Load - Neutral, no ground, or 4 prong Load Load Ground and Neutral.
I'm curious as I've also just bought this welder:

Why does the Miller plug say 20A, and in the manual it calls for 24.3A @220V? Is the 30A circuit for my 220V air compressor sufficient for it?

Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:06 PM   #2404
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I would imagine it is stamped 20 amps due to the manufacturer of the plug.

The naming convention simply says that it is suitable for up to 50 amp service if you have the appropriate plug/receptacle/wires etc.

Nothing says you cannot utilize said outlet with less service, it will trip a breaker if you try to pull too much juice, you would just never utilize this plug for a 100 amp service of any sort.

Sort of like you could use a 20 amp 110V outlet on a 15 amp breaker, with the wires for 15 amp, but if you plugged a 20 amp 110V device in it will pop.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:06 PM   #2405
Ricardo Kuhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P B G View Post
Easiest way to figure plugs/holes. We have NEMA naming conventions and of course P is plug R is Receptacles.



Going across the chart, your first plug is a NEMA 6-50P 250V rated to 50 amps, you want a Nema 6-50 R outlet to plug that into.

They gray one looks like a 10-50P, which is probably more often used for dryers.
Wow I have no idea this plug thing had so many freaking variables, until a few minutes ago I was aware of two of them

I thank you for taking your time to answer my question.

Quote:

You have to remember what the plug terminals are.

Welders use the 6-50P it has two 110 Loads, and a Ground, no Neutral, Most 3 plug dryers are Load - Load - Neutral, no ground, or 4 prong Load Load Ground and Neutral.
So can I still wire my welder to my dryer plug, if so how do i do it..

Also where is the best place (shop and/or online) to look for this kind of supplies I will need about 20 feet of cord and the two plugs.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:48 PM   #2406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
Wow I have no idea this plug thing had so many freaking variables, until a few minutes ago I was aware of two of them

I thank you for taking your time to answer my question.



So can I still wire my welder to my dryer plug, if so how do i do it..

Also where is the best place (shop and/or online) to look for this kind of supplies I will need about 20 feet of cord and the two plugs.
Are you keeping the dryer 10-50R wall receptacle? Or are you replacing it with a welder 6-50R receptacle?

If you're replacing it, then there's McMaster-Carr or Grainger or Amazon.

Or Google Shopping


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Old 01-22-2012, 03:34 AM   #2407
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Question re: welding swingarm - extending it

Alright, I've got a welding question.

The bike I'm building has a boxed-section swing-arm - it's steel. I want to extend it, and will probably buy a used swing-arm, cut both, and then weld the parts together to get, oh, about 1.5" to 2.5" more length.

example of what we're talking about:


(Not only will this give the bike clearance for knobbier tires, but the effect of an increase in its wheelbase for touring miles has me interested... not sure if I'd notice it though. Also, I already have a stiffer rear shock and spring for it.)

The welder I have is a Lincoln HandyMig, 75/25 shielding gas, with both .030 and .023 solid wire.

First, I've seen a few build pictures of swing-arms like mine when people were extending theirs, but I've seen real hack-jobs and some that seemed OK.

How would any of you go about it (MS Paint diagram would be great, lol, as I've spoken to another guy who is a welder, but his method seemed better suited for Harleys and bikes where weight was not an issue and using solid-stock was OK)? I guess I could bevel the edges of both pieces and weld-up the V-channel, but I'm wondering if that'll be enough vs. somehow putting reinforcing bar inside the box-section and, I guess, button-welding through holes drilled on the sides of the swing-arm. Is button-hole welding really all that effective for structural though, 'cause it seems more like it's for putting sheet-metal together.

Second, of course, is the welder itself. It can do 1/8" plate... I can't imagine the thickness of a steel Japanese swing-arm is even 1/8" though. I think I will be fine with it as long as I determine the best structural cut and reinforcement methods to use.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:42 PM   #2408
David R
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Laugh

IF your skills are excellent, you would know if its big enough or not., the welder puts out 85 amps according to an ad I just read. Not a whole lot of amps.

Its YOUR azz on that motorcycle.

I would be less concerned if it had dual shocks behind the splice in the swing arm so the weight is directly on the shocks.

Simple really, are you good enough to bet your ass on it?

David
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:38 PM   #2409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Alright, I've got a welding question.

The bike I'm building has a boxed-section swing-arm - it's steel. I want to extend it, and will probably buy a used swing-arm, cut both, and then weld the parts together to get, oh, about 1.5" to 2.5" more length.

example of what we're talking about:


(Not only will this give the bike clearance for knobbier tires, but the effect of an increase in its wheelbase for touring miles has me interested... not sure if I'd notice it though. Also, I already have a stiffer rear shock and spring for it.)

The welder I have is a Lincoln HandyMig, 75/25 shielding gas, with both .030 and .023 solid wire.

First, I've seen a few build pictures of swing-arms like mine when people were extending theirs, but I've seen real hack-jobs and some that seemed OK.

How would any of you go about it (MS Paint diagram would be great, lol, as I've spoken to another guy who is a welder, but his method seemed better suited for Harleys and bikes where weight was not an issue and using solid-stock was OK)? I guess I could bevel the edges of both pieces and weld-up the V-channel, but I'm wondering if that'll be enough vs. somehow putting reinforcing bar inside the box-section and, I guess, button-welding through holes drilled on the sides of the swing-arm. Is button-hole welding really all that effective for structural though, 'cause it seems more like it's for putting sheet-metal together.

Second, of course, is the welder itself. It can do 1/8" plate... I can't imagine the thickness of a steel Japanese swing-arm is even 1/8" though. I think I will be fine with it as long as I determine the best structural cut and reinforcement methods to use.
If you dont weld on a regular basis I would not recomend this project. You need a bigger welder and should find out what type of steel it is so you can match filler wire. It would really suck if you got hurt from a swing arm failure. That swing arm would need to be welded with 100% penetration through the entire box section of each arm. Those Handy Welders are good for light welding but YOU would have to make perfect welds. Take it to someone who has experience welding or extending swingarms.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:42 PM   #2410
KTM640Dakar OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
I ask again, I need help finding a 220 "Female" plug for my 211miller welder

Here is the male plug, yes is a 220 plug but looks like a 110 plug just bigger.


One "ground" round pin and two vertical and parallel blades
Go to your local Home Depot and in there tool section by the welders are female single phase 230v 50 amp 6-50r recepticles and 6-50p plugs. They will probably have Lincoln Electric wrappers on them.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:44 PM   #2411
retiredgentleman
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Holes in exhaust muffler

I bought an exhaust because it was in very good condition, except for one thing. The PO liked noise so he drilled 5 holes in the back end of the muffler. The holes are about 3/16" or maybe 1/4".

Can these holes be welded (filled?) Do I just take it to a welding shop?
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:56 AM   #2412
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Thanks guys, re: the swing-arm, but the method is still my main question - not the welding unit as I have access to both larger Millers and experienced welders. It's just that they aren't experienced with Japanese bike modding and box-tube swingarms, and it's up to me to decide the way to go about it. We have our ideas, I am still curious as to the ideas of those here.

Passing the torch about methodology isn't what this thread's title says. If you're scared to weld or work on your own swingarm for yourself, I'm fine with that. I don't mean to sound smart, but it seems kidna obvious that
Quote:
Originally Posted by David R View Post
Simple really, are you good enough to bet your ass on it?
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM640Dakar View Post
Take it to someone who has experience welding or extending swingarms.
are easily approaches any of us could have done or taken without the "Ask your WELDING questions here." thread existing.

Motorcycle forum, welding thread, and I have motorcycle related welding questions.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:11 AM   #2413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thanks guys, re: the swing-arm, but the method is still my main question - not the welding unit as I have access to both larger Millers and experienced welders. It's just that they aren't experienced with Japanese bike modding and box-tube swingarms, and it's up to me to decide the way to go about it. We have our ideas, I am still curious as to the ideas of those here.

Passing the torch about methodology isn't what this thread's title says. If you're scared to weld or work on your own swingarm for yourself, I'm fine with that. I don't mean to sound smart, but it seems kidna obvious that and are easily approaches any of us could have done or taken without the "Ask your WELDING questions here." thread existing.

Motorcycle forum, welding thread, and I have motorcycle related welding questions.

Pick a place in the straight part, slice it off straight and true...add two pcs, weld them up, add a nice plate on the outside and inside over the welded area...a nice diamond shape would be cool...TIG would be my preferred method, but I am a Welding Snob... It isn't rocket surgery..people do it all the time...ER's aren't full of crash victims..I did this one alittle different, but I was going wider and longer..just alittle.

Just think about what you are doing and do a good job..enjoy the ride.

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Old 01-25-2012, 03:54 PM   #2414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post

Thanks guys, re: the swing-arm, but the method is still my main question
As others have said, cut and splice in a piece. The swingarm is a low carbon steel part, aka mild steel. Cut it with a bandsaw or hacksaw using a jig, or scribe a line and cut inside or outside of the line (depending on which piece your keeping) with a cutoff wheel. The low carbon steel isn't hardened and the heat from cutting and welding won't soften the metal.

Regarding strengthening the arm. Reinforcing the added piece isn't necessary. Think of the swingarm as a cantilever, like a flagpole sticking out from the side of a building. For example, if you make the flagpole longer, it must be strengthened toward the base. If strength is added at the inserted piece, the added strength creates a 'focal point' for the additional load. A focal point in the wrong place.

The minimum bending load on the swingarm is at the axle, the maximum bend load is at the shock mount. Notice the gusseting on the swingarm begins as the increasing load gets closer to the shock mount.

The best place to insert the added piece is into the straight section near the adjuster slot. That's where the bending loads on the lever arm are lowest. At the say 2" insert piece the bend load will be whatever the weight on the rear tire is, plus 50%, then divided by 2 because the load is shared. Putting the insert there it would be nearly impossible to make too weak a weld.


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Old 01-25-2012, 08:11 PM   #2415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
So can I still wire my welder to my dryer plug, if so how do i do it..
Easiest way to get around the whole shared receptical thing.

Welder needs
Load Load Ground

Dryer Needs

Load Load Neutral

You can have Load Load Neutral Ground - 4 wires (or 3 conductors and a ground, or 3 conductors and ground through the conduit if metal conduit - Check local codes and what the rest of the wires are).

Pull the appropriate wires to the outlet over sized won't hurt, then use an outlet with 4 holes, something like the NEMA 14-60R, then replace the plugs on both your dryer and your welding machine with NEMA 14-60P plugs.

If you do this I would really send a ground to the dryer, most dryers have them now, but older ones do not. And you can just leave the neutral lug unwired on the welder, or you can make a short jumper for your welder which would connect the ground and 2 load wires correctly.


About the only thing you should NOT NOT NOT do is share grounds/neutrals inappropriately.
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