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Old 01-27-2012, 06:20 PM   #2431
nod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitebread117 View Post
Check out Miller Bobcat series. 10kw single phase or 11kw 3 phase generator plus onboard stick welder. Accessories add mig and tig capabilities. Around $3500 new for base unit. A "big" unit like what you're imagining can easily run $15-20k.
Wow, me likey - given the typical Generac 10kw standby fixed generator is ~$2.5k, it's not a big leap to add a welder on there. This supposes I could actually get out the door with just the "base unit."

Wish I could justify the Trailblazer 302 Air Pak - for Swiss-Army factor, a generator/welder/air-compressor/battery-charger? SWEET. But yeah, getting close to that $15k number...

Back here on my planet, I'd be more likely to get a MillerMatic 180, a Generac 5kw cart generator, and use the existing Craftsman 5HP compressor and Craftsman battery charger. A man can dream...
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:21 PM   #2432
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Originally Posted by slackmeyer View Post

One of my dreams in life is to live off the grid, mostly solar, but with a big diesel powered generator/welder to weld and to run the big shop equipment.
Soon, brother, soon. I'm sure we'll be making alcohol from cellulose before too much longer. That'll run your diesel just fine. Grasses, and hemp will eventually win out for fermented fuel feedstocks.


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Old 01-29-2012, 09:30 AM   #2433
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Question...... I am working on a Upside Down Fork Conversion on my DRZ 400 and the frame stop is slightly high and I need to extend it. I was thinking of making a duplicate tab and drilling 2 holes in the OEM frame tab and slug welding it in.

Details I need to confirm are....

1. What type of steel will be best for this job?

2. The bike is built so how do I protect the electrics from shock?

3. What type of welder should I use and what settings?

I have atatched pictures of the job I need to complete. My buddy is a welder and has a welding truck with several welding machines so I have options and a welder that can do the job. I just need to confirm with knowledgeable motorcycle guys first so he doesnt fry my bike electrics, since he is mainly a structural welder.
Thank You In Advance for assistance and time spent to reply.



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Old 01-29-2012, 03:46 PM   #2434
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Any old steel will be fine. A scrap steel piece from your buddy's structural welding truck will work. He'll more than likely know the weld settings.

There's many ways to attach the extra piece, I would maybe drill some big plug welding holes into the added piece instead of the original tab, if I could remove the triple clamp and stand the frame up vertical. Or cut a rectangular piece, a little smaller length/width, weld to the bottom of the original tab on 3 sides, and grind to suit.

Disconnect the battery and unplug the electronic ignition module.

Put the work clamp near to the weld, sand off some paint to make a good contact.

Maybe repack the bearing?


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Old 01-29-2012, 04:03 PM   #2435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Any old steel will be fine. A scrap steel piece from your buddy's structural welding truck will work. He'll more than likely know the weld settings.

There's many ways to attach the extra piece, I would maybe drill some big plug welding holes into the added piece instead of the original tab, if I could remove the triple clamp and stand the frame up vertical. Or cut a rectangular piece, a little smaller length/width, weld to the bottom of the original tab on 3 sides, and grind to suit.

Disconnect the battery and unplug the electronic ignition module.

Put the work clamp near to the weld, sand off some paint to make a good contact.

Maybe repack the bearing?

OK, I will drill the extra metal tab instead of the OEM frame stop.

I just talked to him and he said that he can safely TIG weld it with ONLY the battery disconnected.
However, I will unplug everything and remove the Ignition Module as well. Should I remove anything else as a precaution? Charging stator,coil, switches, starter solenoids etc...?

He says welding a completed bike is no different than welding on a piece of heavy equipment that has a Computer controlled engine of which he said he does all the time. He said that the key is grounding the job correctly at the weld site and using an additional earth ground as well to relieve static "eddy current"

I am sending him pics of the job at hand now so he can advise which steel I need to get from him.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:11 PM   #2436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Put the work clamp near to the weld, sand off some paint to make a good contact.

Maybe repack the bearing?

Do not clamp on anything supported by the triple clamps, the current will flow through the steering head bearings to complete the circuit and cook 'em. Clamp on the frame as close as possible to the steering head.

I'd cut a piece the same size as the one on the frame, champher all edges (3 on the new piece and 3 on the frame) and your buddy can run a horizontal bead around the bottom of the frame piece and on top of the added piece. The bead will lay down in the groove leaving more weld surface area than plug welds.

Edit: I'm too slow. My DR650 frame is mild steel, any scrap metal he has will work.

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"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:28 PM   #2437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
Do not clamp on anything supported by the triple clamps, the current will flow through the steering head bearings to complete the circuit and cook 'em. Clamp on the frame as close as possible to the steering head.

I'd cut a piece the same size as the one on the frame, champher all edges (3 on the new piece and 3 on the frame) and your buddy can run a horizontal bead around the bottom of the frame piece and on top of the added piece. The bead will lay down in the groove leaving more weld surface area than plug welds.

Edit: I'm too slow. My DR650 frame is mild steel, any scrap metal he has will work.

I see what you mean... I will have the entire front end off of the bike. The races will be in there but nothing else. At this point I am looking for as much info as possible regarding the protection of the bikes electrics. I will definitely be removing the CDI ( ignition module) and disconnecting the battery as well as advised previously. Do I need to remove any other electrical components?

He said he will use the clamps that we are going to use to hold the new tab to the OEM frame tab for the ground, along with a grounding strap to aid in dispersing of static (eddy current) charges


I may take this opportunity to remove the steering lock assembly since the new stem doesnt have provisions for the steering lock anyway.
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:24 PM   #2438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbed06 View Post

I just talked to him and he said that he can safely TIG weld it with ONLY the battery disconnected. However, I will unplug everything and remove the Ignition Module as well. Should I remove anything else as a precaution? Charging stator,coil, switches, starter solenoids etc...?

He says welding a completed bike is no different than welding on a piece of heavy equipment that has a Computer controlled engine of which he said he does all the time. He said that the key is grounding the job correctly at the weld site and using an additional earth ground as well to relieve static "eddy current"
He's right about all that. Anymore I just tell people to remove the ECU or Ignition Module just to avoid the circular discussion. What I mean is that people will remove whichever electrical parts that they're not comfortable leaving connected. So I just start off making suggestions that mimic what they are comfortable with. I mentioned the Ign Module because if I remember on the DRZ it's right there easy to get to.

The switches, regulator/rectifier, stator can all stay in place. Unless you want to remove them. In which case that would be the best thing to do.


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Old 01-29-2012, 05:58 PM   #2439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
He's right about all that. Anymore I just tell people to remove the ECU or Ignition Module just to avoid the circular discussion. What I mean is that people will remove whichever electrical parts that they're not comfortable leaving connected. So I just start off making suggestions that mimic what they are comfortable with. I mentioned the Ign Module because if I remember on the DRZ it's right there easy to get to.

The switches, regulator/rectifier, stator can all stay in place. Unless you want to remove them. In which case that would be the best thing to do.

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"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:15 PM   #2440
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I understand , I admit that I have no clue about welding on built bikes or welding for that matter.

I dont mind removing most of the electrical components but will admit I did not wanna remove the stator, starter, and wiring harness.

I also admit that I also had visions and thoughts of wiring gremlins later on if I didnt remove the wiring harness even if I disconnected the various components from the wiring harness.

I am sure that I sound foolish but I do not have any more time or money to make any mistakes now... So gaining much needed knowledge is extremely valuable at this point.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:32 PM   #2441
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You don't sound foolish, you're just doing your homework. With your weldor clamping right at the weld, you're set; he has it covered.

weldor = person
welder = machine

Don't drop the welder on the weldor.
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"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:41 PM   #2442
bobbed06
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I appreciate all of the help very much...
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:00 PM   #2443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbed06 View Post

I also admit that I also had visions and thoughts of wiring gremlins later on if I didnt remove the wiring harness even if I disconnected the various components from the wiring harness.
Nah, you're good. I usually remove more stuff than is necessary as well. There's no accounting for our superstitions. And Murphy's Law dictates that a 50 cent weld for a tab will take out a $3500 ECU.

Post up a pic when it's done.


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Old 01-29-2012, 07:32 PM   #2444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
You don't sound foolish, you're just doing your homework. With your weldor clamping right at the weld, you're set; he has it covered.

weldor = person
welder = machine

Don't drop the welder on the weldor.
For two reasons.
1. It's gonna get kinda messy.
2. It'll usually fuck'em both up so that neither one will work.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:31 AM   #2445
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FWIW I do TIG welding (with HF start) right next to my computer with no ill effects, though I usually turn off the computer so if there is some transient disturbance it does not cause the computer to crash.

The key to the issue of welding on a motorcycle is remembering that the current flows in a loop, from the welder to the material being welded, through the material being welded to the ground clamp and from the clamp back to the welder. What you want to do is minimize the path through the material being welded and minimize the loop area. What this means is to keep the ground cable parallel to the welding cable and not have big loops (or multiple turns of small loops) of either cable adjacent to the motorcycle. This will minimize any induced current in the motorcycle wiring. I would not be afraid to weld on my bike with everything connected, but I would make the ground connection within inches of the area being welded.
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