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Old 02-24-2012, 11:35 AM   #2476
Chisenhallw
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Hey,

How different is brazing from stick welding? Someone's trying to talk me into dabbling in bicycle frame building. If lugs are used, I'd have to teach myself to braze. Is there a good primer on brazing anywhere?

Thanks
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:05 PM   #2477
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Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
Hey,

How different is brazing from stick welding? Someone's trying to talk me into dabbling in bicycle frame building. If lugs are used, I'd have to teach myself to braze. Is there a good primer on brazing anywhere?

Thanks
If you need to ask here, dont try building bike frames............its not simply a matter of learning how to braze, which is pretty simple.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:27 PM   #2478
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Brazing is a bond between the metal parts with brass alloy. Welding melts the two metals usually with a filler that has similar properties.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:13 PM   #2479
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If you need to ask here, dont try building bike frames............its not simply a matter of learning how to braze, which is pretty simple.
I was under the impression that most lugged bicycle frames were silver soldered NOT brazed.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:33 PM   #2480
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I was under the impression that most lugged bicycle frames were silver soldered NOT brazed.
"silver soldering" is a form of brazing. Brazing is a generic process with multiple possible filler metals, silver solder being one of them. The primary difference between brazing and soldering is temperature.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:06 PM   #2481
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Originally Posted by Whitebread117 View Post
"silver soldering" is a form of brazing. Brazing is a generic process with multiple possible filler metals, silver solder being one of them. The primary difference between brazing and soldering is temperature.
Yes and uses capillary action to hold the lower melting temperature filler between the two higher melting temperature parent metals.

You can use bronzes, silver alloys, etc as the brazing alloy. But you dont actually melt the pieces being brazed together. There is also arc brazing of steel with silicon bronze where you use a bronze wire in a MIG welder to weld (braze) steel. The auto makers commonly use silicon bronze to weld very thin steel that is too difficult to MIG weld with a steel filler wire. The wire is applied without melting the steel. The surface area of the brazment determines the strength generally, along with the tensile strength of the filler used.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:08 PM   #2482
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Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
Hey,

How different is brazing from stick welding? Someone's trying to talk me into dabbling in bicycle frame building. If lugs are used, I'd have to teach myself to braze. Is there a good primer on brazing anywhere?

Thanks
Google search Harris alloys. They have very good info on soldering and brazing.

Or just click the link below.

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...s/Brazing.aspx
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:51 PM   #2483
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Thanks!
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I wanna go terrorize hipsters at farmers markets... in first and second gear. Farm fresh burnouts for all!
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:10 AM   #2484
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I'm getting ready to make a 6061 subframe for my bike and talked with a heat treating shop to get it to T6. They recommended I use 6061 or at least a 6000 series filler rod so the heat treating is the same throughout the piece. Was intending to use 4043A or 5056A (still need to pick up the rod). Am I going to run into trouble either way as far as fracture toughness and ductility goes or anything else? I like the idea of better ductility.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:24 AM   #2485
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4043 is the first choice for 6061.
5356 does not like to go over 150 f.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:38 AM   #2486
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I make bicycles. Silver is wicked expensive right now, but you can make lugged bicycles with brass alloy rod. Check out [URL="http://henryjames.com/"]

I know of one guy that gas welds bmx frames, but otherwise it's all tig welding. Your wall thickness is .6mm to .9mm generally for the main tubes and 1.3-1.5mm for head tube, bb, and seat top where the top tube is. I use a .035 filler rod. There are some pretty fancy tubes out there these days, heat treated and air hardening.

There is a bike mechanic school in Ashland and Portland Oregon called UBIhttp://www.bikeschool.com/ that has a frame building course that does brazed and tig welded steel and even a ti course. Very knowledgable people.

There is a guy called Yamaguchi that teaches frame building. Don't know contact info, but it's all brazing. Think he's in Colorado.

TIG, if you are out east, contact Mike Flanigan at ANT http://antbikemike.wordpress.com/

Hope this helps...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
Hey,

How different is brazing from stick welding? Someone's trying to talk me into dabbling in bicycle frame building. If lugs are used, I'd have to teach myself to braze. Is there a good primer on brazing anywhere?

Thanks
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:16 AM   #2487
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Originally Posted by GSWayne View Post
FWIW I do TIG welding (with HF start) right next to my computer with no ill effects, though I usually turn off the computer so if there is some transient disturbance it does not cause the computer to crash.

The key to the issue of welding on a motorcycle is remembering that the current flows in a loop, from the welder to the material being welded, through the material being welded to the ground clamp and from the clamp back to the welder. What you want to do is minimize the path through the material being welded and minimize the loop area. What this means is to keep the ground cable parallel to the welding cable and not have big loops (or multiple turns of small loops) of either cable adjacent to the motorcycle. This will minimize any induced current in the motorcycle wiring. I would not be afraid to weld on my bike with everything connected, but I would make the ground connection within inches of the area being welded.
Well I decided it was a good time to go ahead and paint the frame. We also had to adress some other issues I felt were worth handling so I tore the bike down for frame paint.

Milled Out the Head Stays



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Old 02-29-2012, 07:48 PM   #2488
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Welder

OK, someone might have asked this already, but I didn't see it.

What would be an overall good MIG welder for doing the usual exhaust, frame, tabs etc. on bikes (140/185)?
And is a 110/120V a good idea?

Ooops, I guess that's two questions, sorry.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:06 PM   #2489
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Miller 210 with optional spool gun. Find a used one.

I've had one for 6 years now and love it. Does, steel, stainless, aluminum, bronze.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:59 AM   #2490
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Miller 210 with optional spool gun. Find a used one.

I've had one for 6 years now and love it. Does, steel, stainless, aluminum, bronze.

Thanks!
What's a fair price range?
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