Ask your WELDING questions here.

[sailah]

Originally Posted by Pike Bishop

Now that's what *I* would like to learn ... but where does a middle-aged hobbyist go to learn machining? The community college doesn't teach it!

I was in the same boat a couple years ago with welding and machining. I had a strong desire to modify bikes but always came up short in the necessary skill depts to do what I wanted.

For welding I just bought a TIG welder and started practicing. Problem is that when you and I weld once every couple weeks it's hard to get good and stay good vs guys that do it all day long. I'm still learning, but my welds and confidence get better all the time. Long way to go though.

For machining I had the same issue. I always wanted to learn how but where to start? I figured that a lathe would be the most practical for a bike as I needed round stuff, so I bought a bunch of textbooks and read online, watched youtube. Nothing prepares you for the real deal though.

I bought a fairly serious lathe for my first outing, and so far it's been great. I feel the study of machine work is such a vast topic it's hard to get started unless you just go out and do it. Start small, on aluminum or plastic and slowly increase your skills until you're making real parts.

I have a good friend that is a machinist and I have access to lots of machinists through work, so I ask a LOT of questions. Then I go home and try it. And screw it up, then make it again...

If you're reasonably coordinated no reason you can't learn the basics of a lathe. I came from a professional woodworking background so it wasn't too difficult to learn the metal craft. I find it very satisfying to make parts from metal, especially ones where I finish it on the lathe, walk over to the bike and weld it on

There's a great guy on youtube called tubalcain that does a series of really basic videos on all things machine shop. He has a great voice and being a shop teacher for 30 something years, has his ways of teaching. Check it out I think you'll find it will help you understand the basics enough to where you can go out and make a simple bushing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222?feature=watch

Be warned though, machine work is incredibly expensive. I was given fair warning by my buddy, and I ignored it. Especially the part where he said plan on spending twice what you paid for the lathe on tooling. Ha!! I retorted. I spent $2500 on a lathe, ain't no way I'll spend that on tooling...

[Benesesso]

Originally Posted by sailah

I spent $2500 on a lathe, ain't no way I'll spend that on tooling...

So what lathe did you buy?

[sakurama]

Originally Posted by Pike Bishop

Now that's what *I* would like to learn ... but where does a middle-aged hobbyist go to learn machining? The community college doesn't teach it!

Here are two books that are really great beginning books. They manage to discuss many basic things (work holding) and yet still manage to cover a lot of things that are advanced as well (climb cutting). I've been lucky to spend the last 10 years sharing shop space with several machinists and fabricators and my lessons learned were invaluable but I still learned much from these books.

Machine Shop Essentials and Machine Shop Know-How

I've read dozens of books after getting my mill and lathe and these two are the most approachable books on the subject. If only there was a welding book that was as comprehensive and practical. I'm all ears on that one.

Gregor

[sailah]

Originally Posted by Benesesso

So what lathe did you buy?

It's an enco 1340. 3hp, 3 phase etc

I like it, I wish it was a heavier machine but I simply don't have the space in a one car garage

[Rapid Dog]

Coll. Thanks for the input. Chricky there are alot of models to choose from out there. Right now I just have a small 120V Lincoln for stuff around the ranchito.
I'd like to learn to do some of those nice Tig welds though.
Does someone make a 120V Tig, small enough to carry around?

[David R]

Originally Posted by Rapid Dog

Coll. Thanks for the input. Chricky there are alot of models to choose from out there. Right now I just have a small 120V Lincoln for stuff around the ranchito.
I'd like to learn to do some of those nice Tig welds though.
Does someone make a 120V Tig, small enough to carry around?

Lincoln V160T. Fine machine. I have a V155-S that is also a nice machine and a V160-S. The 155 (11 lbs) does not take a foot pedal, the 160 (18 lbs) does.

Miller makes a similar machine. Almost any DC welder will tig.

David

[mikejohn]

Originally Posted by Pike Bishop

Now that's what *I* would like to learn ... but where does a middle-aged hobbyist go to learn machining? The community college doesn't teach it!

I like to get more into CNC but same here The community college doesn't teach it!, If there is a Vo-tech school around go there, I took that back in 79-80.

Any way the frame i am talking about is i think, 4130 mat. high tensile strength steel, but do keep in mind that manufactures are going to build things quickly and inexpensively as possible (Cheap) more than likely the frame was robot welded at the factory

[ADV8]

Originally Posted by Pike Bishop

Now that's what *I* would like to learn ... but where does a middle-aged hobbyist go to learn machining? The community college doesn't teach it!

You could just buy a machine and go from there,don't get caught up in the hype that you have to have something big.
I would even go as far as saying some of the smaller machines although the spindle bore is small the swing can be bigger.

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ver/?start=all

[Twin-shocker]

Originally Posted by mikejohn

I like to get more into CNC but same here The community college doesn't teach it!, If there is a Vo-tech school around go there, I took that back in 79-80.

Any way the frame i am talking about is i think, 4130 mat. high tensile strength steel, but do keep in mind that manufactures are going to build things quickly and inexpensively as possible (Cheap) more than likely the frame was robot welded at the factory

Your Triumph frame isnt likely to be 4130, as using this material is likely to double production costs over using the far more common ERW tubing. which can easily be joined by MIG welding. Take a close look a how the frame was built originally, and if MIG was used its almost certain to be ERW (no matter what the advertising blurb might say!).

There is no real need for CNC for use in your home workshop, but its certainly worth looking at if you have small scale part production in mind. You can do pretty much any home turning job on a manual machine, but its a good idea to avoid new Chinese lathes and buy used American or English as these will be better made and easier to use for a beginner.

[sailah]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

You can do pretty much any home turning job on a manual machine, but its a good idea to avoid new Chinese lathes and buy used American or English as these will be better made and easier to use for a beginner.

I disagree. I'm a huge follower of american iron, for years I rebuilt american woodworking equipment from 1950 and older. That stuff is amazing and heavily built.

American machine tools however can be a crap shoot. While they are better built for sure, the chances of them being used in a production environment are high and with that comes a lot of wear. Wear that can be a nightmare to deal wiith and frustrating to a beginner.

I would like to move to an American machine now just for the whole "feel" of it, but I like to rebuild things and tinker. I would expect to pay double what my machine costs for an excellent example in similar size and swing. For my buy in I got a lathe with zero wear (it was used, but by a homeowner I got at his personal estate auction), lots of tooling, plug in and go. No backlash anywhere, threads metric etc.

South Bend and company command a premium price, even ones with considerable wear and slop. The taiwan lathes made today are actually quite good. The castings are not beautiful to look at like a comparable US machine, but the point is that they work. Not having three phase in your shop adds to the expense as many of them were equipped with three phase motors.

If you just want to dip your toes in the water, buy a inexpensive lathe with some tooling and give it a whirl. If you don't like it, flip it and move on. If you have a great time doing it, down the road you'll appreciate (and know what to look for) in your next machine.

If you really want an American machine of industrial quality, go to machine shop auctions. It's fun just to play with all the old stuff and there's lots of tooling for dirt cheap. I went to one the week after I bought my Enco, and they sold a 12" Clausing with Aloris toolpost for $450 and it was a nice machine. Probably a good idea to bring someone along with you who can check it out or read a lathe buying how-to, but int he end it's a crap shoot.

[VTSteve]

Originally Posted by ER70S-2

The DR650 has a phillips head screw for a floatbowl drain. But they're stupid tight and easy to strip. I'm going to buy a few and weld allen heads on them. Fixt. The cool thing about a good TIG is how small you can weld.

.

You're finding them easy to strip because they aren't phillips heads, they're JIS.

[Pike Bishop]

Thanks for the reply and good advice, Sailah.

[mikejohn]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

Your Triumph frame isn't likely to be 4130, as using this material is likely to double production costs over using the far more common ERW tubing. which can easily be joined by MIG welding. Take a close look a how the frame was built originally, and if MIG was used its almost certain to be ERW (no matter what the advertising blurb might say!).

There is no real need for CNC for use in your home workshop, but its certainly worth looking at if you have small scale part production in mind. You can do pretty much any home turning job on a manual machine, but its a good idea to avoid new Chinese lathes and buy used American or English as these will be better made and easier to use for a beginner.

I was thinking more of a 2 axis type mill like an anilim, looks like a brigdeport

[Twin-shocker]

Originally Posted by sailah

I disagree. I'm a huge follower of american iron, for years I rebuilt american woodworking equipment from 1950 and older. That stuff is amazing and heavily built.

American machine tools however can be a crap shoot. While they are better built for sure, the chances of them being used in a production environment are high and with that comes a lot of wear. Wear that can be a nightmare to deal wiith and frustrating to a beginner.

I would like to move to an American machine now just for the whole "feel" of it, but I like to rebuild things and tinker. I would expect to pay double what my machine costs for an excellent example in similar size and swing. For my buy in I got a lathe with zero wear (it was used, but by a homeowner I got at his personal estate auction), lots of tooling, plug in and go. No backlash anywhere, threads metric etc.

South Bend and company command a premium price, even ones with considerable wear and slop. The taiwan lathes made today are actually quite good. The castings are not beautiful to look at like a comparable US machine, but the point is that they work. Not having three phase in your shop adds to the expense as many of them were equipped with three phase motors.

If you just want to dip your toes in the water, buy a inexpensive lathe with some tooling and give it a whirl. If you don't like it, flip it and move on. If you have a great time doing it, down the road you'll appreciate (and know what to look for) in your next machine.

If you really want an American machine of industrial quality, go to machine shop auctions. It's fun just to play with all the old stuff and there's lots of tooling for dirt cheap. I went to one the week after I bought my Enco, and they sold a 12" Clausing with Aloris toolpost for $450 and it was a nice machine. Probably a good idea to bring someone along with you who can check it out or read a lathe buying how-to, but int he end it's a crap shoot.

Taiwan made machine tools look to me pretty good. In regard to Chinese though, take a look at the number of sites set up by people who own these machines, detailing various ways of overcoming the many problem areas that most of these have when brand new!

[sailah]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

Taiwan made machine tools look to me pretty good. In regard to Chinese though, take a look at the number of sites set up by people who own these machines, detailing various ways of overcoming the many problem areas that most of these have when brand new!

I think people interchange Chinese and Taiwan too often. The little 9x20 lathes, sure I can see that there are a lot of problems inherent in such a small machine, and many work arounds required to get sufficient performance out of one.

For the larger 12" bigger lathes, I think you'll find the quality gets up there.

Let me put it this way. My Taiwan lathe is capable of turning parts to a level I'll probably never achieve. It's as accurate as I can expect, or measure, and for what I am making (motorcycle doo dads), it far outpaces my abilities as an operator. I've never wished I had a "better" lathe.

My only complaint is the looks. Which is stupid I admit to evaluate a tool by, but I can't help it. I love American iron and if I could fit one in my garage, I would sell mine in a second. The feel of the handles, the style of the castings...delicious.