ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-12-2007, 05:53 AM   #271
mark1305
Old Enough To Know Better
 
mark1305's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Oddometer: 5,869
Also Bronco - as soon as you even start to get fed up with the smoke and spatter of using flux core wire, change the machine over (if possible) or trade for a machine to run solid wire with inert gas.

It didn't take me long to reach that point (about halfway thru building a cart for the machine, which is a standard learning drill for folks teaching themselves). After switching to solid wire and C25 (25% CO2 and 75% Argon), no more smoke or spatter and no more knocking slag off before continuing. Straight CO2 will make for a hotter arc and slightly better penetration in steel, but the C25 mix leaves a prettier weld and I can switch over and run 308 SS wire without changing the gas and only suffer a little oxidation to clean up on stainless.
__________________
Mark J
Merritt Island, FL

When a person asks you for advice, they don't want advice. They want corroboration.
mark1305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 11:27 AM   #272
Bronco638
Nobody Home
 
Bronco638's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Itasca, IL
Oddometer: 3,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1305
Also Bronco - as soon as you even start to get fed up with the smoke and spatter of using flux core wire, change the machine over (if possible) or trade for a machine to run solid wire with inert gas.

It didn't take me long to reach that point (about halfway thru building a cart for the machine, which is a standard learning drill for folks teaching themselves). After switching to solid wire and C25 (25% CO2 and 75% Argon), no more smoke or spatter and no more knocking slag off before continuing. Straight CO2 will make for a hotter arc and slightly better penetration in steel, but the C25 mix leaves a prettier weld and I can switch over and run 308 SS wire without changing the gas and only suffer a little oxidation to clean up on stainless.
The machine will run gas now. I just need to find a local place that sells the small bottles (or do you buy the gas and 'rent' the bottle?). I have solid wire. So, the switch over will be no big deal. I just need some scap to practice on. Thanks again Mark - Dave.
__________________
There are some simple thruths......and dogs know what they are - Joseph Duemer

Andy holds the lead. And he will, all the way to the Highway. Today is his day.
Bronco638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 06:03 PM   #273
Dan Alexander
Ride Far - Ride Fast
 
Dan Alexander's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Now only Montreal
Oddometer: 6,682
I've got a noob welding question ... if I try to weld to the underside of the GS gas tank will it destroy the paint on the top of the tank? I had an enlargement welded to the underside of my R1100S aluminum tank and I'd like to try to enlarge the GS's tank.
Dan Alexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 03:27 AM   #274
sharkey
XLV750R
 
sharkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Oddometer: 875
While we're talking fuel tanks ... I'm hoping to cut-and-shut an old crumpled XLV750R fuel tank to bring the capacity up to 30L or so ...

Anyone know what gauge steel the tank's likely to be made of, and if it'll be possible to weld it up with my little MIG (SIP 150, goes down to ~25A with 0.6mm wire) without blowing holes in it?

Any other tips on welding fuel tanks (other than washing it out *REAL* carefully first!)

-----sharks

PS: Yep, Bronco, the small disposable cylinders are a waste of money, hire ye a cylinder ...
sharkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 04:55 PM   #275
DustMeOff
back on the 2 wheel wagon
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: 3.2% UT, formerly of bar on every corner-burgh, PA
Oddometer: 143
my old honda v65 tank was made of something about 24 gage (~.58mm), i.e. really thin stuff. first, clean the old paint off of the outside of the tank, open it up and air out. maybe put some gravel and dish detergent to scrub out the fuel residue then rinse. if most of the tank is open, like you would do to splice in extensions, fire hazard is possible, by explosion is unlikely because the pressure isn't contained. it's hard to recommend to people what makes them safe. i was trying to explain to a friend accross country how to make a boat tank safe to ship and got many good responses here.

the best way to mig weld would be to lap joint the new metal in, have the new metal lapped under the old metal by 5-10 mm then do a series of mig tack welds to position it. make sure it is tightly pressed against the inside of the original sheet metal. practice on scrap first.

go back and split the difference between tacks with more tacks, and cool each one with a wet rag after welding. keep splitting the difference and cooling each weld until you have welded the perimeter. grind the welds flat then go back and touch up any pinholes/pits/craters with more welds. don't even try to do a continuous weld. you may get away with 1/2-1" stiches, but you will be more likely to burn through or warp.

test the tank for holes using water, and if you can't fix a spot by adding weld, grind out the small pitted area and reweld. you can make a copper backup spoon from a piece of copper water pipe if you blow through any local spots. you hold it behind the area to fill with weld, then weld very simple. it acts like a heatsink and won't stick. after you take care of all the holes, then bondo up the joint and paint. you can try a butt joint if you don't like to use bondo, but it will be much harder to keep from burning through and making it liquid tight.

good luck.
mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkey
While we're talking fuel tanks ... I'm hoping to cut-and-shut an old crumpled XLV750R fuel tank to bring the capacity up to 30L or so ...

Anyone know what gauge steel the tank's likely to be made of, and if it'll be possible to weld it up with my little MIG (SIP 150, goes down to ~25A with 0.6mm wire) without blowing holes in it?

Any other tips on welding fuel tanks (other than washing it out *REAL* carefully first!)

-----sharks

PS: Yep, Bronco, the small disposable cylinders are a waste of money, hire ye a cylinder ...
DustMeOff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 06:21 PM   #276
Tripod
waldeinsamkeit
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: NE by N
Oddometer: 1,117
I have been playing around with a new Lincoln 135 (it rawks!) to put in a brand new set of underwear on my old '62:



Drivers side is all done. My question, being sort of a noob when it comes to mig, is with technique. I am welding all butt joints (20 gauge steel) and I have found that a slight side-to-side motion (perpendiicular to the joint) seems to flatten out the bead and bite into both pieces. Is this correct? Or should I not have any motion at all?
__________________
"We're all just dancers on the devils dance floor" - Flogging Molly

"If I wanted someone to clean me up I'de find myself a maid"-Dawes
Tripod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 07:52 PM   #277
mark1305
Old Enough To Know Better
 
mark1305's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Oddometer: 5,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638
The machine will run gas now. I just need to find a local place that sells the small bottles (or do you buy the gas and 'rent' the bottle?). I have solid wire. So, the switch over will be no big deal. I just need some scap to practice on. Thanks again Mark - Dave.
My gas supplier used to be a Holox store here on the Island, and they were bought out by Air Liquide. Same staff, no real changes. But anyway, I bought my bottle (40 cu ft IIRC) outright which is good because they don't really refill the same bottle, but swap for a filled one so I don't get stuck with a botlle going out of hydro testing dates. The cost to fill the small bottle is almost the same as as the big bottles, but I needed the small one to fit my cart under some shelves in the shop and to help with portability of the whole rig.

I haven't had a problem when the store changed ownership, but I've read horror stories. If you buy a bottle instead of renting (or either way) make sure you keep a file of all receipts and paperwork in case your vendor ever does change ownership. Otherwise you may get in a pissing contest over ownership of your bottle with a new store owner.

Don't forget when switching to gas, you will probaly need to change polarity of the machine. If you have the manual, no prob. If not, its usually just unbolting and switching two leads somewhere in the cabinet and usually close where the torch lead plugs in at the drive system.
__________________
Mark J
Merritt Island, FL

When a person asks you for advice, they don't want advice. They want corroboration.
mark1305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 08:09 PM   #278
mark1305
Old Enough To Know Better
 
mark1305's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Oddometer: 5,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod
I have been playing around with a new Lincoln 135 (it rawks!) to put in a brand new set of underwear on my old '62:



Drivers side is all done. My question, being sort of a noob when it comes to mig, is with technique. I am welding all butt joints (20 gauge steel) and I have found that a slight side-to-side motion (perpendiicular to the joint) seems to flatten out the bead and bite into both pieces. Is this correct? Or should I not have any motion at all?
Watch out Dude, that can be addictive. I got all wrapped up in a 78 Merc wagon hotrod project for a few years as I was teaching myself to fit and weld. Reskinned most of the hood in sections and replaced huge sections of the "D" pillars and their transition into the rear fenders back at the rear end. Too much fun.

But to your question, yes - I found that on some sheet metal joints where it was too easy to slow down travel speed and burn through, that using a weave pattern spread the heat and made for a bigger weldment and more strength. The down side was on seams that had to be ground smooth it meant more metal to remove and more chance for warping from the grinding heat.

Just recently - like this past year, I was welding up some rotary jigs for a neighbor to hold aircraft wing sections while spraying paint. The material was .120 wall 2X2 square tubing. On a whim I tried some butt joint holder/spacers/clamps that I picked up at Harbor Fright and never got around to trying. The space they leave for laying the bead in a butt joint (about .060 - .100" - I haven't measured them ) makes the weld go so effortlessly. Good penetration, less burn through, easier to track a straight bead, flatter beads. Dohh! Why didn't I try these before? And even with them stuck inside tubes or squares, you can unscrew the wing nut and shake the inside pieces out the end of the assembly. They come in a bag of about a dozen for a couple of bucks.
__________________
Mark J
Merritt Island, FL

When a person asks you for advice, they don't want advice. They want corroboration.
mark1305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 09:59 PM   #279
sharkey
XLV750R
 
sharkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Oddometer: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1305
On a whim I tried some butt joint holder/spacers/clamps that I picked up at Harbor Fright and never got around to trying. The space they leave for laying the bead in a butt joint (about .060 - .100" - I haven't measured them ) makes the weld go so effortlessly. Good penetration, less burn through, easier to track a straight bead, flatter beads. Dohh! Why didn't I try these before? And even with them stuck inside tubes or squares, you can unscrew the wing nut and shake the inside pieces out the end of the assembly. They come in a bag of about a dozen for a couple of bucks.
Never heard of such a thing ... could you post a piccy or two? I'm too scared to ask Google about "butt clamps".

EDIT: Never mind ... found some on Ebay, they look perfect for my fuel tank project, will go check out the local welding place.

EDIT2: Now if only I could find some in Australia! Anyone's seen 'em, let me know!

-----sharks

sharkey screwed with this post 09-13-2007 at 11:07 PM
sharkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 05:59 AM   #280
Tripod
waldeinsamkeit
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: NE by N
Oddometer: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1305
Watch out Dude, that can be addictive.

On a whim I tried some butt joint holder/spacers/clamps that I picked up at Harbor Fright and never got around to trying.
I passed up on a weekend bike trip to Montreal (wimmuns and booze mandatory) so I could spend it under the old beast (in the dirt) this weekend. Alone.

I think I have a fever. Or need to start saving for another visit to the shrink. Addictions are a bitch.

A friend of mine told me about those clamps. So far I am just "practicing" on the welds where it more or less can't be seen and doesn't matter. I will do the cab corners last. When I get up the nerve.
__________________
"We're all just dancers on the devils dance floor" - Flogging Molly

"If I wanted someone to clean me up I'de find myself a maid"-Dawes
Tripod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 08:57 AM   #281
Bronco638
Nobody Home
 
Bronco638's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Itasca, IL
Oddometer: 3,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1305
Don't forget when switching to gas, you will probaly need to change polarity of the machine. If you have the manual, no prob. If not, its usually just unbolting and switching two leads somewhere in the cabinet and usually close where the torch lead plugs in at the drive system.
Thanks Mark, for the reminder. When I bought the 'box' it was set-up to weld with gas. I switched it over to flux-core (the manual recommended this for noobs). Switching the leads was part of the process. I doubt I'll ever use all the gas in one of the large cylinders and I certainly don't have room to have one of those laying around. When I get better and get sick of the spattering, I'll look into switching over. And, yeah, I've been thru the "this bottle isn't ours" and "these testing dates are old" aurgu-sations. Keeping the paperwork is great advice. Thx - D.
__________________
There are some simple thruths......and dogs know what they are - Joseph Duemer

Andy holds the lead. And he will, all the way to the Highway. Today is his day.
Bronco638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 09:20 AM   #282
DustMeOff
back on the 2 wheel wagon
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: 3.2% UT, formerly of bar on every corner-burgh, PA
Oddometer: 143
panel clamps are available form eastwood, they may ship to aus.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/p...ProductID=1159

you still want to stich the panel together to keep warpage down, and the super thin stuff will still take plenty of finesse.
good luck
mike


Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkey
Never heard of such a thing ... could you post a piccy or two? I'm too scared to ask Google about "butt clamps".

EDIT: Never mind ... found some on Ebay, they look perfect for my fuel tank project, will go check out the local welding place.

EDIT2: Now if only I could find some in Australia! Anyone's seen 'em, let me know!

-----sharks

DustMeOff screwed with this post 09-15-2007 at 09:30 AM
DustMeOff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 07:06 AM   #283
KTM640Dakar OP
Motorsick
 
KTM640Dakar's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Oxbow Lake
Oddometer: 1,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod
I have been playing around with a new Lincoln 135 (it rawks!) to put in a brand new set of underwear on my old '62:



Drivers side is all done. My question, being sort of a noob when it comes to mig, is with technique. I am welding all butt joints (20 gauge steel) and I have found that a slight side-to-side motion (perpendiicular to the joint) seems to flatten out the bead and bite into both pieces. Is this correct? Or should I not have any motion at all?
Yes. Weaving is ok.
__________________
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It is not the destination, it's the journey.
KTM640Dakar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 07:17 AM   #284
KTM640Dakar OP
Motorsick
 
KTM640Dakar's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Oxbow Lake
Oddometer: 1,990
Thanks to everyone for helping spread there knowledge around.

I can't be on the site every day so I'm not able to answer questions as soon as I'd like, or you would like.

Thanks to all for filling in the gaps and leting us in on all of your welding tricks and hints.


WELDING GAS TANKS

Please be careful when you weld a gas tank!!!!!!!!!!
Be sure you clean it out so that you can no longer smell the gas!
The vapors are what will cause fire.
Also use Argon gas to fill the tank before welding to further lessen the possibility of fire/explosions.

If you can smell gas inside of the tank then it is not to be welded.
__________________
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It is not the destination, it's the journey.
KTM640Dakar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 11:55 AM   #285
Bronco638
Nobody Home
 
Bronco638's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Itasca, IL
Oddometer: 3,412
OK (Mark), I had an opportunity to practice on some .125" steel over the weekend. I finally was able to put some beads down that look pretty good. However, I'm still using the manual to tell me what voltage and wire feed to use as initial set-up. I was able to determine that the suggested wire feed setting was too slow. The beads looked really good after I stepped the wire feed up a notch. Which leads to my question:

Is there an easy way to tell when you don't have enough heat (voltage) versus not enough wire feed?

Too much heat will obviously burn a hole in the material and too much wire feed will push the gun away from the work. So, the context of the above question is more along the line of "fine tuning" as opposed to "general (ball park) set-up".

TIA - Dave.
__________________
There are some simple thruths......and dogs know what they are - Joseph Duemer

Andy holds the lead. And he will, all the way to the Highway. Today is his day.
Bronco638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014