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Old 07-03-2012, 04:38 PM   #2926
NitroAcres
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Originally Posted by slidewayes View Post
So what your saying is my $500 60's 300 amp 1000 lbs transformer is as good as a new $15,000 super duper inverter machine?
Accurized

Yeah, all them new machines guys invest in are a total waste of money...
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:10 PM   #2927
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Originally Posted by NitroAcres View Post
Accurized

Yeah, all them new machines guys invest in are a total waste of money...
I had an HTP Invertig a few years ago. Taught myself to weld aluminum among other things. $2000 for a 200 amp machine with pulse, hi freq, etc. Made even me look pretty good!
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:52 PM   #2928
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Laugh

The new machines have more options. but the old big transformer ones have BALLS. A 300 amp old skool tig will draw 100 amps at 220v single phase. An inverter may draw only 70.

A 300 amp inverter is 5,000 to $8,000.00.

My Arcmaster 185 was $2100 five or six years ago. Its an awesome machine.

I have been looking for a used AC/DC inverter 300 or 400. Just don't have enough work to justify a new one.

The tool does not make the man....

David
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:17 PM   #2929
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A skilled weldor with an old machine can produce welds every bit as appealing to the eye as what the youngn's can do with machines that take most of the skill out of the welding process.

No offence ment. It still takes some talent to set the machine up to do what you want it to.

However I would prefer to turn the machine on, mabe adj. amperage and start welding with out having to fiddle with this, that, and whatever else it takes to make the machine do something you should be able to do.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:59 PM   #2930
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Originally Posted by fxstbiluigi View Post
A skilled weldor with an old machine can produce welds every bit as appealing to the eye as what the youngn's can do with machines that take most of the skill out of the welding process.

No offence ment. It still takes some talent to set the machine up to do what you want it to.

However I would prefer to turn the machine on, mabe adj. amperage and start welding with out having to fiddle with this, that, and whatever else it takes to make the machine do something you should be able to do.

No question that someone doing it for a living or welding often will probably have better technique regardless of the machine. I weld infrequently so I need all the help I can get.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:51 PM   #2931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxstbiluigi View Post
A skilled weldor with an old machine can produce welds every bit as appealing to the eye as what the youngn's can do with machines that take most of the skill out of the welding process.

No offence ment. It still takes some talent to set the machine up to do what you want it to.

However I would prefer to turn the machine on, mabe adj. amperage and start welding with out having to fiddle with this, that, and whatever else it takes to make the machine do something you should be able to do.
Exactly...........a new generation inverter set with various weld jobs programmed into the memory, will make things an awful lot easier, and with the correct torch positioning and something to rotate a cylindrical job, will mean a very nice weld can be obtained simply by pressing buttons, so other than setting up, there isnt really much skill involved there.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:00 AM   #2932
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Originally Posted by slidewayes View Post
So what your saying is my $500 60's 300 amp 1000 lbs transformer is as good as a new $10,000 super duper solid state machine?
Your old transformer set will do most of what a new generation inverter set will do, but the big difference is that the inverter set will make things much much easier, with features such as job store, AC/DC mix, frequency control, various wave forms, etc etc etc. For anyone doing weld related production work for a living new generation inverter is probably a very good idea, but for less frequent use by a relatively competent welder, the old transformer set is still going to be a very good choice if you have the space and the 3 phase supply, that most are likely to need.
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:43 AM   #2933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxstbiluigi View Post
A skilled weldor with an old machine can produce welds every bit as appealing to the eye as what the youngn's can do with machines that take most of the skill out of the welding process.

No offence ment. It still takes some talent to set the machine up to do what you want it to.

However I would prefer to turn the machine on, mabe adj. amperage and start welding with out having to fiddle with this, that, and whatever else it takes to make the machine do something you should be able to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Exactly...........a new generation inverter set with various weld jobs programmed into the memory, will make things an awful lot easier, and with the correct torch positioning and something to rotate a cylindrical job, will mean a very nice weld can be obtained simply by pressing buttons, so other than setting up, there isnt really much skill involved there.
Interesting statements, some of it is true....

I have been Welding since May of 1976, I have run alot of machines in all these years, worked in alot of shops till I got tired of being told what to do and when to do it, and how much I was limited to making...So I have been out on my own for about 27yrs., put together a shop in the garage and later in an old chicken house.

Right now in my shop I have 4 TIG Welders, an old P&H Chemtron 400, Miller Syncrowave 350LX, Dynasty 300 and a Dynasty 700...each is wired in a different part of the shop and is used for whatever job needed..

Just because it has lots of buttons it isn't a sign it is EZ'r to operate, all the adjustments allow for change in the parameters and effect the width, depth, and speed of solidification of the weld puddle...and it makes for alot of thought on how that is going to effect the outcome of the welded part...so you can buy it, but it won't set it's self up and run perfect welds for you.

They also don't come with "PreLoaded or PreSet Programs". I have seen guys who can weld get lost in the setup and become frustrated with the outcome...and return to an older machine because of it.

Turn tables are a great invention (took me many years to be able to afford one or even justify spending $1800), for production work, makes money, turns out it worth the investment, however you still have to know what you are doing to get to the point of making quality welds., that a customer will pay for, or you would be confident in the weld holding on a motorcycle you are riding/racing or someone else is.
Once you get the setup, yep then it is just a matter of holding the torch at the correct angle and feeding the wire, consistantly...:)

If you think that it is easy, I invite you to come and try it, I have people here a couple times a year who want to learn to weld, it kinda cracks me up when they say,
"You make it look so EZ"....and my personal favorite.."FUCK, Sunofabitch" right after they stick the tungsten for the 10th time...and guys who can already weld, "What the hell am I doing wrong?"," What does this do again"? .

The Tools may not make the Man, But a Man with Skills and Good Tools can Do a Better Job.

(I don't just do production work, I work on motorcycles alot also, mine and for others, but the production work pays the bills)

NitroAcres screwed with this post 07-04-2012 at 07:33 AM
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:45 AM   #2934
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Agreed I Have only been serous about welding the past few years so far Ive taught myself alum ,mag, ti ,s/s with old equipment. But given the chance A TZ 750 or M1 I well take a shot at the M1
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:06 AM   #2935
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The inverter machines with all the fancy settings aren't for beginners. You need to understand why you need to adjust all those settings or you'll get frustrated. I'm still a beginner tig welder but I know enough to know that the welding machine is not the limiting factor in my progression. You need hood time and lots of it to achieve welds like nitro. Sometimes I can get 80% of what his looks like but only for a short run.

There is so much focus and I've learned that being comfortable and practicing the welds before you strike an arc can get better and more consistent welds.

Right now I'm doing lots of aluminum welding which I enjoy much more than steel. Keeps you on your toes but the results can be beautiful.

I love tig welding I just wish I had more time to practice and an actual flat place to weld
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:32 AM   #2936
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In actual fact setting up a TIG inverter is really pretty simple, as long as the user is aware of what the various settings do, and how they are likely to affect the particular job being undertaken.

The nice looking job pictured by Nitro could be carried out almost entirely automatically, and the only additional equipment required would be a fixture to hold the torch in the correct place, and a cold wire feed unit.

Cold feed units are not cheap, but in effect mean that a TIG machine will work more like a MIG, as there is no need to feed the wire manually, and travel speeds will be improved as long as inverter is properly set up.

Have a look on the excellent "Welding Tips and Tricks" web site for more info on TIG inverter sets, and even though a top of the range Miller set costing $8K+ will have more features than a $600 Chinese machine, the Miller has quite a lot in common with the cheap Chinese set, in terms of its basic range of adjustable features.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:03 AM   #2937
NitroAcres
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
In actual fact setting up a TIG inverter is really pretty simple, as long as the user is aware of what the various settings do, and how they are likely to affect the particular job being undertaken.
.
An there in lies the rub..

I have a cold wire feeder, you want to talk about something that will make you want to tear out your hair when you first start using one, it has the hand held feeder...and when you are welding it is sooooo hard NOT to push the wire into the puddle and let it do it's job....I used it for one production job and haven't used it again since. Maybe another simple long seam production job will come along it will be useful for again.

Twin where you at in the UK? I have a couple of good friends who live there, one use to ride a TopFuel bike, The Imperial Wizard, the other owns Puma Enginering & rides the Gulf Top FuelBike.

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Old 07-04-2012, 11:45 PM   #2938
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The CK cold wire feeder looks like it would be a very useful tool for anyone who does much production TIG work, but I would guess its something that would take quite a while to get the best out of?

I can remember when Brian Johnstone was riding pro stock, which must have been the early 80s, always seemed to have very nicely built bikes.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:12 AM   #2939
NitroAcres
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
The CK cold wire feeder looks like it would be a very useful tool for anyone who does much production TIG work, but I would guess its something that would take quite a while to get the best out of?

I can remember when Brian Johnstone was riding pro stock, which must have been the early 80s, always seemed to have very nicely built bikes.

Yes the CK works very well, when used in Robotic welding they attach it directly to the torch and it feeds the wire into the pool just infront of the direction of travel. I was using it in the left hand like you would with wire insted...it was just to bulky attached to the torch...still a pain in the ass though, getting the speed of feed set and maintaining it thruout the length of the bead.

Yep that is Brian Johnson (BJ), switched from PS to TF many years ago, He is into Astronamy now that he is "Older".., Ian King is the other Bloke I spoke of, his bikes are a true work of art, Ian use to bring me a big box of Cadbury Fudgiees when he would come over here to race...not sold here anywhere.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:59 AM   #2940
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I cant see the CK feeder would be much use for manual welding, but maybe ideal for auto welding on cylindrical parts using a turntable?
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