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Old 09-17-2007, 06:38 PM   #286
mark1305
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While I was puzzling over the exact same question and trying different things, I learned that .125" is a really good thickness to practice with. Not as easy to burn through and its not quite at the upper limit for single pass welds.

I finally concluded that the factory settings recommended for my Hobart Handler 120 for the upper half of its operating range were on the low side for voltage. My machine has 4 voltage settings(only numbered 1-4, and the manual just has simple graphs that don't explain exactly what the voltage is set to because of other variables like tickout etc.) and infinite wire speed/amps. My beads always stood way "proud" or high. So I started going up one click higher on the voltage and practiced. The thing I learned to look for was how the higher voltage gave better penetration, but I had to increase my travel speed. The net result was better penetration and flatter beads. I used to hang out on a great usenet weldors group until sadly it was overrun lately by idiot spammers. The pros and instructors on there talked about production shop tactics: Turn up the volts and run it hot and fast. And when you up the volts, you still have to diddle with the wirespeed just a little to get that bacon sizzle sound.

So the short answer for me was if the bead is too tall, the voltage is too low and/or travel speed is too slow.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:24 PM   #287
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Thanks Mark. Certainly, more practice is in order but at least I'm seeing some progress in the beads I put down.

Another question; being a lefty, I tend to try to 'pull' the puddle (that is work from right to left). A good friend that introduced me to welding (and taught me some fundamentals) told me to always 'push' the puddle. I'm finding that making very small circles, with the wire, seems to produce the best beads. Does it really matter if I 'pull' or 'push' the puddle?
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Bronco638 screwed with this post 09-19-2007 at 02:43 PM
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:29 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638
Thanks Mark. Certainly, more practice is in order but at least I'm seeing some progress in the beads I put down.

Another question; being a lefty, I tend to try to 'pull' the puddle (that is work from right to left). I good friend that introduced me to welding (and taught me some fundamentals) told me to always 'push' the puddle. I'm finding that making very small circles, with the wire, seems to produce the best beads. Does it really matter if I 'pull' or 'push' the puddle?
You should push when using solid welding wire. Drag with fluxcored or slag producing wires. By pushing the arc with a 10 to 15 degree travel angle you will get a flatter weld bead crown.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:12 PM   #289
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What he said.

But.... When I can't get a good position to push and rest my hand properly for the length of travel, and see the puddle, and so on, I will drag solid wire to have better control.

I use the circular weave a lot for different situations. Seems easier for me to keep a good rhythm and puddle control than a simple zigzag weave.
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:51 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM640Dakar
You should push when using solid welding wire. Drag with fluxcored or slag producing wires. By pushing the arc with a 10 to 15 degree travel angle you will get a flatter weld bead crown.
That would explain why 'pulling' seems to work better than 'pushing'; I'm using flux core wire. I will have to remember this when I switch over to gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1305
What he said.

But.... When I can't get a good position to push and rest my hand properly for the length of travel, and see the puddle, and so on, I will drag solid wire to have better control.

I use the circular weave a lot for different situations. Seems easier for me to keep a good rhythm and puddle control than a simple zigzag weave.
Yeah, I recall that my friend said that if you can't 'push' due to constraints, 'pulling' would be OK.

The circular motion was something I tried on my own. I will also experiment with a zig-zag motion, too.

Thanks for the replies. Practice, practice, practice.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:12 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM640Dakar
Do you have a question about welding?
What would I need to weld 1/8" mild steel or aluminium. I don't want an outfit where that is the upper end of its capability. What gases or single gas can I get away with.

Keep in mind I like feeding in my own rod as I already have an oxy-acetylene outfit in the garage. So I would assume TIG. I've done MIG. Nice, simple, not for me though.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:02 PM   #292
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lift/touch start tig and Electronics

i'm curious about if the new touch/lift start feature on inverter tigs make them safe around sensitive electronics. i pulled the computer on my gs before even mig welding just to make sure, but how necesary is this with the new tigs? they advertise this as a feature, but is it really safe around ESD sensitive parts? is it safer than mig?

Mike
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:25 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustMeOff
i'm curious about if the new touch/lift start feature on inverter tigs make them safe around sensitive electronics. i pulled the computer on my gs before even mig welding just to make sure, but how necesary is this with the new tigs? they advertise this as a feature, but is it really safe around ESD sensitive parts? is it safer than mig?
The arc starting method, and the welding current, are two different things. Positioning the work clamp in just the wrong place can damage an ECU, regardless of the method used to initiate the arc.

- Jim

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Old 09-21-2007, 02:29 PM   #294
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so assuming you put the work clamp as close to the weld as possible on a clean spot of metal. i.e. goo connection closeby.

i've been told that high frequency starting is bad for nearly all but the most well shielded esd sensitive components. it travels on the surface of all conductive materials nearby, even though it's not physically connected. it's coupled to the welding lines by a transformer, which has no conductive connection to the welding cables. it's basically a high energy rf signal added to the high current power.

it also makes sense that stick and tig would be able to generate high voltage spikes since they are constant current and should have some significant inductance. i would expect a big spike every time you try to break the arc, and ac squarewave has a spike at each transition. that's independent of the starting method.

what i'm wondering is if the claims that miller and lincoln make about touch/lift starting. is it 'safe' or just 'safer than HF, but still likely to kill your ESD parts'?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


The arc starting method, and the welding current, are two different things. Positioning the work clamp in just the wrong place can damage an ECU, regardless of the method used to initiate the arc.

- Jim
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:40 PM   #295
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As you mentioned, do what makes sense to you, or do what you feel comfortable with. If you are concerned, and think you should buy new product, then buy new product.

Certainly HF, non-HF, Lift Arc, and DC Stick have been in use for may years. Over those many decades, one, or the other, or the latest, or the one that came before, or the advertised, is thought of as the best, or the safest, by many, or few, people.

Your procedure-of-choice is to disconnect the ECU and any other sensitive components, and make a good work clamp connection. That procedure is hardly improvable.

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Old 09-24-2007, 02:02 PM   #296
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Hey Mark -

I was reading thru the owner's manual for my welder. I notice that to be able to weld thinner material (< .062), they recommend using gas shielding (as opposed to flux core wire). Do you know why that is?

Thanks, Dave.
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:36 PM   #297
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That's a good textbook question that I don't have the textbook answer for.

But if I had to make a quess, thin stuff is much easier to weld with shielding gas because it makes an infinitely cleaner weld with little spatter or smoke, and the arc seems a lot more stable to me with gas. And that last point is good when doing thin sheet stuff.

There's always the debate over which gas to use if you are only getting one bottle. Some folks like CO2 because it makes the arc hotter and gives slightly better penetration in steel. I'm with the folks that prefer 75% Argon 25% CO2 as the best all around gas. A little cleaner weld, and I use it for mild steel and stainless. Costs a little more, but I'm not doing production, so it's a neglible difference to me.

One other thing important to welding thin stock. Always use good quality wire - not bargain basement off-brands that may of poor or inconsistent quality. I usually use Hobart wire(not necessarily because of the brand, but it's the brand carried by my neigborhood supplier where I get all my gases), but any big label like Lincoln, etc should be good.
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:42 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustMeOff
so assuming you put the work clamp as close to the weld as possible on a clean spot of metal. i.e. goo connection closeby.

i've been told that high frequency starting is bad for nearly all but the most well shielded esd sensitive components. it travels on the surface of all conductive materials nearby, even though it's not physically connected. it's coupled to the welding lines by a transformer, which has no conductive connection to the welding cables. it's basically a high energy rf signal added to the high current power.

it also makes sense that stick and tig would be able to generate high voltage spikes since they are constant current and should have some significant inductance. i would expect a big spike every time you try to break the arc, and ac squarewave has a spike at each transition. that's independent of the starting method.

what i'm wondering is if the claims that miller and lincoln make about touch/lift starting. is it 'safe' or just 'safer than HF, but still likely to kill your ESD parts'?
You are right. Arc starting without high frequency is safer. But beware of your electronics.
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:52 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638
Hey Mark -

I was reading thru the owner's manual for my welder. I notice that to be able to weld thinner material (< .062), they recommend using gas shielding (as opposed to flux core wire). Do you know why that is?

Thanks, Dave.
Usually an Innershield fluxcored wire gives you better penetration into the metal so you burn through on thin sheet. Also the wire diameter of fluxcored wires are bigger too. You can buy an .023 diameter solid Super Arc wire but Innershield is not available that small.

Buy shielding gas with at least 80% Argon in it for MIG welding with solid wire.

Todd
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:00 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Global Rider
What would I need to weld 1/8" mild steel or aluminium. I don't want an outfit where that is the upper end of its capability. What gases or single gas can I get away with.

Keep in mind I like feeding in my own rod as I already have an oxy-acetylene outfit in the garage. So I would assume TIG. I've done MIG. Nice, simple, not for me though.
Here is a perfect TIG welder for your garage.

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...et.asp?p=39581
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