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Old 03-09-2013, 11:54 AM   #3361
JAFO
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You are tremendously overthinking this.
Install 50a service, be done with it.



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Old 03-09-2013, 12:07 PM   #3362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
You are tremendously overthinking this.
Install 50a service, be done with it.



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You been talking to my wife?

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Old 03-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #3363
Danjal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
You are tremendously overthinking this.
Install 50a service, be done with it.



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Yep. It will only pull as much as needed. Even if it's only pulling 20a on a 50a circuit or 20 on a 20,it's still malfunctioned and still going to meltdown.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:03 PM   #3364
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Originally Posted by GordonH View Post
I'm trying to get the outlet done before I buy a unit. Do you know of any websites that have the manuals? My bing-fu is lacking.

Gordon
For a 230V outlet you can use a 30 amp fuse.

Same for 120 V 30 amp if you can. Most are only 20 amp. 15 amp if it's an old house.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #3365
TheOtherBart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonH View Post
I don't have a problem with running the 50a. wire, I'm more concerned with protecting the welding unit itself. If it's only drawing 20 or so amps, in the event of a problem internally where it is pulling more than that, I want the breaker either on the unit if it has one, or the one in the panel to trip before damage is done to the unit itself.

Gordon
The panel breaker is there to protect the house/garage wiring, not the equipment plugged into it. Like ER70S said, pretty much everything electrical in your house (lamps, computers, stove, dryer, whatever) is plugged into a circuit with a panel breaker well over what any of those devices could actually handle without melting down. Go with the 50A breaker and wiring big enough to handle that much current, then plug in anything that draws less than 50A.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:00 PM   #3366
Stan_R80/7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonH View Post
Recently looked at a Hobart mig with 240v input voltage. Specs say it draws 20. something amps, but has a 50 amp cord on it. Am I missing something on the spec sheet? I need to run a 240v circuit in the garage and depending on which brand I choose I want to do it correctly and only once. Do the popular brands have internal fuses/breakers that will trip at the right overcurrent for the unit? I know that if I install a 50 amp outlet I have to run 50 amp wire and have a 50 amp breaker, not a 30. Any ideas.

Gordon
If the Hobart welder you are looking at is the 210 MVP (which is extremely similar to a Miller 211) the plug is for a 50 amp outlet, but the welder cord wire is 14 gauge. The 14 gauge wire is sized due to the duty cycle of the welder. What you put in your garage is up to you, although a 20 amp 230V circuit will run the 210 (211) welder up to the duty cycle for 3/8" welding.

The wiring and circuit breaker should be sized together and meet code to protect the wiring and prevent overheating. What is plugged into the outlet is not part of code but should have it's own fuze or circuit breaker. For example, the 210 (211) welder 50 amp plug can use an adapter cord for a 20 or 30 amp 230V plug because of the welder duty cycle.

The most expensive option is to wire a 50 amp circuit using 6 gauge wire. An existing 230V 30 amp dryer outlet with an adapter cord for the welder is the least expensive option. Both will meet the needs for a Hobart (210)/Miller (211) but the details of what you want and need make all the difference. Good luck!
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:02 PM   #3367
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somewhat new to mig welding....I recently purchased a Chicago Electric auto darkening hood from Harbor Freight, price was right and it seems to work well. Question / problem; What shade do I use ? In order to see the weld puddle I am at shade 9 or 10. While this allows me to see well I am experiencing "spots" in my vision for a minute or so after I stop welding. At shade 11 it is not happening but I can't see my weld puddle worth a darn. What is the experience of you more practiced welders out there ? I really need to be able to see the puddle but do not want to burn my eyeballs out !
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:55 PM   #3368
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I use the same gear, set my helmet between 10 and 11. If you are having problems, maybe use sunglasses or tinted safety glasses under your shield? Should be wearing safety glasses at a minimum, anyway
Edit to add: I have noticed if I am welding in ambient dark (approaching night, night, or dusk) I will have a bit of flashburn due to the instantaneous change from dark/light conditions. Even with the autodarkening shield, I still catch that initial flare, I guess, and in those extreme conditions I have issues. Not a insurmountable problem : this is not work/production welding, it's more or less a hobby, so I've made a rule that I don't weld in anything other than full sun. If I was feeding the family with this, I'd pay big bucks for a better helm.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:01 PM   #3369
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My eyeballs are worth more to me than a welding helmet from Harbor Freight. Imagine life without your eyes and go buy a decent lid.


I use this one and weld for a living:

http://store.cyberweld.com/jaboeqcaudaw.html
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:15 PM   #3370
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If you wear reading glasses, these are available.

http://store.cyberweld.com/malemihe.html
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:55 AM   #3371
David R
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If you have the helmet on your head the UV protection is there.

Adjusting a cheap or good helmet is operator preference.

My Lincoln Vista has shades 9, 10, 12, and 13. All are fixed
and no 11. $300.00 helmet. Go figure. Daily I use a miller elite.

If you get done welding and you feel like you have been looking at a
100 watt light bulb, turn it darker.

The only problem I have with the harbor freight ones is
they are not sensitive enough for tig and flicker.
That will drive you nutz.

Buy a better helmet if it makes you feel better.

David
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:57 AM   #3372
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Originally Posted by GordonH View Post
I've seen the results of equipment that was over fused. Not very pretty and really dangerous. My query is to why the manufacturer states a 20a. input and yet puts a 50a cord on it. I've been searching the NEC and I'm coming closer to an understanding as to why they do this. Duty cycle, max input amps and other magic. If I find an answer and can explain it without taking a night class in EE I'll put it up. Suffice to say I'll install the feed to the manufacturers specs. Looks like I'll be buying the unit first. Now the hard part begins.

Gordon
Transformer welders have a big/huge inrush current when the transformer is energized. I had two different Hobart mig machines, 170 and 200 amp Betamigs. The 200 amp. machine, a little older, did not energize the transformer until the gun trigger was pulled. The inrush current, which only lasts a fraction of a second, was enough to trip my 60 amp. "quick trip" type breakers several times a day. Not fun when you pull the trigger, no arc and the fan stops.

The 170 machine energized the trans. when it was turned on, and every so often it would also trip the breakers when first turned on. I could have bought some slow-trip breakers, but I just used the 170 machine instead.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:46 AM   #3373
victor441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
If the Hobart welder you are looking at is the 210 MVP (which is extremely similar to a Miller 211) the plug is for a 50 amp outlet, but the welder cord wire is 14 gauge. The 14 gauge wire is sized due to the duty cycle of the welder. What you put in your garage is up to you, although a 20 amp 230V circuit will run the 210 (211) welder up to the duty cycle for 3/8" welding.

The wiring and circuit breaker should be sized together and meet code to protect the wiring and prevent overheating. What is plugged into the outlet is not part of code but should have it's own fuze or circuit breaker. For example, the 210 (211) welder 50 amp plug can use an adapter cord for a 20 or 30 amp 230V plug because of the welder duty cycle.

The most expensive option is to wire a 50 amp circuit using 6 gauge wire. An existing 230V 30 amp dryer outlet with an adapter cord for the welder is the least expensive option. Both will meet the needs for a Hobart (210)/Miller (211) but the details of what you want and need make all the difference. Good luck!
I've been powering my Miller Challenger 172 MIG from a dryer outlet for years at three different places I've lived and never had a problem, just made the cord up with the right ends (the welder uses a kiln plug) and sized the cord wiring per the owners manual specs...might not be a good idea for a bigger machine but works for my small 230V MIG...

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Old 03-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #3374
bigskydrift
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
My eyeballs are worth more to me than a welding helmet from Harbor Freight. Imagine life without your eyes and go buy a decent lid.


I use this one and weld for a living:

http://store.cyberweld.com/jaboeqcaudaw.html
from what I understand is that my hood complies with Standards/Approvals: ANSI Z87.1/CSA Z94.3. I think what makes this hood cheaper is the head ratcheting assy. and hood body itself seems smaller than most but as far as eye protection goes I think the ANSI standard is the same for all hoods / lenses isn't it ?
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:30 PM   #3375
JAFO
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This is correct, but I didn't feel like getting in a pissing match with people who think you have to buy brand name to buy decent.

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