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Old 05-29-2013, 05:57 AM   #3466
David R
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Mark S. I would use 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" angle, three supports.
I am not an engineer.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:20 AM   #3467
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marc-s: I did some calculations for a milling machine table on rollers within the last year. The 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 1/8" steel angle David R suggested was what I used in the calculations. This size angle iron with a brace in the middle per your sketch should be more than adequate for 660 lb using ASTM A36 steel. Based on this table the weight is ~1.23 lb/ft, which should give a total weight ~ 30 lb dependent on the design: http://www.unionironworks.com/engine...aJgZR4dok4NMOr

FWIW, my calculations on a 18"x36"x30"H cart showed the theoretical maximum static load was ~ 20000 lb. Factors of safety need to be included, which reduce the maximum by 1/4. Good luck!

Stan_R80/7 screwed with this post 05-29-2013 at 06:51 AM
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:58 PM   #3468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R View Post
I run 3/32 7018 at 85 amps DC + almost all the time in all positions. Higher amps and the rod stub is a red noodle when I stop welding.
Ok, since you folks say you don't mind more and more pictures. . . . .

Here's some more of the 7018, 3/32" rod, 90 amps AC, 1/4" steel being welded. I made one really bad restart in the middle.


Tried out some of the new rod: 6013 3/32 at 70 amps is the pretty one, 6011 1/8" at 100 amps is the ugly one.




6013 was very easy to weld with. The 6011, I need some more practice- when they say "strong arc force", they aren't kidding. It felt like it was gouging out the steel, but I think part of that was the sound of it, and I would have been better off just moving slower. And maybe turning down the amps a bit.

Thanks again everyone for the advice, I really like honing new skills. . . .
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:09 AM   #3469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
marc-s: I did some calculations for a milling machine table on rollers within the last year. The 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 1/8" steel angle David R suggested was what I used in the calculations. This size angle iron with a brace in the middle per your sketch should be more than adequate for 660 lb using ASTM A36 steel. Based on this table the weight is ~1.23 lb/ft, which should give a total weight ~ 30 lb dependent on the design: http://www.unionironworks.com/engine...aJgZR4dok4NMOr

FWIW, my calculations on a 18"x36"x30"H cart showed the theoretical maximum static load was ~ 20000 lb. Factors of safety need to be included, which reduce the maximum by 1/4. Good luck!
thanks Stan for your input. In my calculations I already included 40% safety margin. I think I'll be able to put 11 boxes, 20kg each on that storage rack. Some of them might only contain sand paper or drill bits, others might be cramped full with electronic parts. 20kg + 40% per box seems a reasonable weight, but I'll weight the filled boxes today to be sure.

Will I be able to do such calculations by myself, maybe with some free software? Or do I need a masters degree in rocket science to even understand all the variables that must be taken into account? I initially planed on an angle iron the size you suggested. But I wonder if I could downsize it, just to save some cash. And for the sake of downsizing.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:53 AM   #3470
David R
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As a welder and NOT an engineer, I just over build everything.

It works for me.

David
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:58 AM   #3471
David R
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Zak, Much better looking welds.
Travel speed in more consistent.
Toes are wet


I don't use much 6010 or 6011. Its not the rod for me. This does not make it bad rod, I just started with 7018 and stayed with it for the last 40 years.

Keep at it.
David
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:00 AM   #3472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc-s View Post
thanks Stan for your input. In my calculations I already included 40% safety margin. I think I'll be able to put 11 boxes, 20kg each on that storage rack. Some of them might only contain sand paper or drill bits, others might be cramped full with electronic parts. 20kg + 40% per box seems a reasonable weight, but I'll weight the filled boxes today to be sure.

Will I be able to do such calculations by myself, maybe with some free software? Or do I need a masters degree in rocket science to even understand all the variables that must be taken into account? I initially planed on an angle iron the size you suggested. But I wonder if I could downsize it, just to save some cash. And for the sake of downsizing.
I was looking at the 1-1/2" x 1/8" angle because it was available locally, was inexpensive, and fairly easy to weld. The calculations came after the availability, cost, and ease of welding. Check with your local suppliers - 30 lb (14 kg) of 7.5 ft (2.3 meter) angle iron will be expensive to ship. Also, here they sell angle iron in 20 ft (6 meter) sections - which is cost prohibitive for two pieces to ship. Using 1/16" (1.5mm) steel instead of 1/8" will work - the issues in my case were finding the material without paying 2x-3x the cost in shipping. Regarding calculations, buckling was a limitation on the cart (along with wheels). For a wall shelf, the limit will likely be the wall attachment and not the steel shelf. Good luck!
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:48 PM   #3473
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availability and price is indeed an important factor that I'm taking into accout since the begining. Price is the main reason I'm asking about downsizing. I have one or two very good supplieres within a 20min drive. They have almost every size, but are too very expensive. Good if you only need some small piece, but if you need lots of tubing for welding projects you're better of getting the stuff somewhere else. and the "somewhere else" is what I'm looking for now. I guess I'll order the stuff in Germany, have it shipped to a pick up station near the border and then drive there to retrieve it. Some supplieres selling online sell 2m sections, which is okay for me. In Germany that is kind of the max. you can ship for a decent price with regular parcel services. So shipping costs will be very low compared to what I get.

at least I got a welding machine today (loaned from a friend. It's a Megatronic Rally 166m. No idea if it's good though...
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:19 PM   #3474
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***Probably not welding specifically, but maybe needed.***

I am getting ready to make an adapter plate between my rear rack mounting points and my Hepco Becker Universal top case mount. The H&B traditionally uses bolts with larger washers to hold it down to an plate but I was thinking about drilling holes in the plate and tapping them.

What is the minimum thickness on aluminum and steel plates to get a decent tap? Alternatively is there an easy way to tack a nut to the underside of a thinner piece?

I've only ever coat hanger brazed as a kid, but it seems like a stick welder would be good enough to tack a couple bolts to a sheet of 3/16 steel. How about JB weld?
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:18 PM   #3475
David R
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Is the top plate aluminum?

Rule of thumb, a nut needs to have as much threads as the diameter of the bolt. SO a 10mm bolt needs a nut (or tapped hole) 10mm thick. In aluminum I would double that.

Helicoils in aluminum hold better than just tapping the aluminum.

David
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:49 PM   #3476
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Yes, a stick welder would be finely suited for zapping some nuts on the backside of your steel plate so that you can thread your bolts into without having a hold back.

Do tack everything in place, though. If you're off a little bit when you tack those nuts you'll hate yourself.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:22 PM   #3477
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3 weeks ago I was at a buddies house and he was welding up some 1/8 inch thick mild steel using a DC tig inverter machine. He was using thoriated tungstun with 15 cu ft flow of pure Argon. This was outside; not in a confined space.

I noticed after 5 minutes of intermittent welding a strong smell of ozone, but didn't think anything of it. 30 minutes after he started welding I went home.

On my way home, I felt strange; my chest felt tight and I had a hard time getting a breath. I could move air in and out but it didn't feel like my lungs were processing much of it. I thought I was going to pass out. It took 3 days before my breathing came back to normal. My mouth had a metalic taste during that time.

The next week I watched him weld some more but this time I stood 25 feet away. I noticed my chest felt tight but not as much as the first time and it only took a day for my breathing/chest tightness to return to normal.

I never experienced this phenomena before even with co2 MIG welding.

My buddy thinks I'm overly sensitive to Argon. What sayest you?

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Old 06-24-2013, 01:00 PM   #3478
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So tacking nuts to the back of a steel plate, can I use a bolt to hold the nut in the right place? Fully tighten it, then come back and tack the nut on 2-3 sides? How about using a blow torch to just heat it all up and droping a dab of braze on the spot? I assume the risk is I end up welding the bolt into the nut?

I don't have super easy access to welding equipment, hence the push to try this with what I can get, a blow torch.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:38 PM   #3479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattlikesbikes View Post
So tacking nuts to the back of a steel plate, can I use a bolt to hold the nut in the right place? Fully tighten it, then come back and tack the nut on 2-3 sides? How about using a blow torch to just heat it all up and droping a dab of braze on the spot? I assume the risk is I end up welding the bolt into the nut?

I don't have super easy access to welding equipment, hence the push to try this with what I can get, a blow torch.
Define blow torch. You need oxy-acet or oxy-propane to reach brazing temperatures (assuming brass).
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:47 PM   #3480
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Argon no, it's inert. Probably the ozone. O3 is real strong stuff. Only 1 ppm for 30 min. in water, no more living bacteria. Can easily harden/age elastomers.
Air is ~1% argon.
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