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Old 02-24-2014, 12:21 PM   #3961
clintnz
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I have welded mild steel gussets to my 640's 4130 subframe with no issues. I would have used 4130 for the extra pieces but it wasn't available locally in the size I needed & the extra few % of strength wasn't critical.

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Old 02-24-2014, 02:24 PM   #3962
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Originally Posted by TymeRider View Post
Just to clarify: Stock X-Challenge frame is aluminum, and that is the only subframe listed on BMW's parts fiche.

For the X-country, both aluminum and steel versions are available on the BMW parts fiche.

I have an X-Challenge with the stock aluminum subframe, but have purchased the X-country steel frame from BMW. For all practical purposes the geometry of the X-Country and X-Challenge subframes are the same. There are some difference with regard to passenger pegs, etc.
4130 will work just fine
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:22 PM   #3963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TymeRider View Post
If I'm making some gussets and brackets to weld to the subframe, how important is it to use the same grade steel as the subframe itself? Can you weld mild steel to chrome-moly and visa-versa?

This is for a BMW X-Country rear subframe, which I assume is made of mild steel like 1018? Or is it chrome-moly like 4130?

I'm going to make the brackets myself, but have a professional welder do the welding.

Doug

The 4130 Chromoly steel is a higher tensile strength than 1018 but you can weld them together. Use an ER80S-D2 welding wire like Super Arc LA90 to match the 4130 or use a mild steel ER70S-6 it match the 1018. Either will work.

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Old 04-13-2014, 02:20 PM   #3964
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more a question about post welding treatment....

my kid has a scooter with a smallish crack in it. it is an expensive deck so I want to try and get it fixed rather than buy a new one. according to interwebs it is made from 6061T6. once it is welded will it need to be heat treated?

tia

g
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:24 PM   #3965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffo1962 View Post
more a question about post welding treatment....

my kid has a scooter with a smallish crack in it. it is an expensive deck so I want to try and get it fixed rather than buy a new one. according to interwebs it is made from 6061T6. once it is welded will it need to be heat treated?

tia

g

I just today read a bit about someone repairing a motorcycle swingarm that was 6061. There were differing opinions from "throw it away if you value your life" to "depending on potential stress risers from where the weld is, as compared to the forces on the swinger, it should be OK"

Perhaps post a picture so the better-informed welders can help?
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:37 PM   #3966
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Perhaps post a picture so the better-informed welders can help?
good idea. I'll try and get one soon.
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:00 PM   #3967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF View Post
I just today read a bit about someone repairing a motorcycle swingarm that was 6061. There were differing opinions from "throw it away if you value your life" to "depending on potential stress risers from where the weld is, as compared to the forces on the swinger, it should be OK"
If it was a trail bike, I wouldn't have a issue running that swingarm. O/a heating or not. Lots of welded swingarm extensions that are 12+ inches that have not failed.

Also Honda uses 7xxx series for their extrusions. Lots of guessing in that welding web thread.
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:52 PM   #3968
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Originally Posted by jar944 View Post
If it was a trail bike, I wouldn't have a issue running that swingarm. O/a heating or not. Lots of welded swingarm extensions that are 12+ inches that have not failed.

Also Honda uses 7xxx series for their extrusions. Lots of guessing in that welding web thread.
Lots of guessing on that site in general not to say my welding projects don't have their fair share of speculation!
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:17 PM   #3969
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First question, why did it crack? From vibration/normal riding or a crash? Your as-welded area gives up a lot of strength--nearly half. The weld area will likely crack again, and sooner. You must use filler metal when welding 6061--no autogenous welding for that alloy. Use 4043.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:34 PM   #3970
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Originally Posted by Benesesso View Post
First question, why did it crack? From vibration/normal riding or a crash? Your as-welded area gives up a lot of strength--nearly half. The weld area will likely crack again, and sooner. You must use filler metal when welding 6061--no autogenous welding for that alloy. Use 4043.
I think it was general use and jumping it. It started out approx 10mm and is now about 50mm long. got it 4043 filler.
Do you have any experience with gas (oa) welding aluminium? lots of youtube videos showing it being done.....
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:18 AM   #3971
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Originally Posted by griffo1962 View Post
I think it was general use and jumping it. It started out approx 10mm and is now about 50mm long. got it 4043 filler.
Do you have any experience with gas (oa) welding aluminium? lots of youtube videos showing it being done.....
No. I am much more of a welding engineer than a welder. I've never had the skill for the art of good welding. But there is a lot of science and engineering behind good welds. Yes, OA welding of alum. is fine, but you have to use flux. Many welders think the flux is to take care of impurities in the base metal, but the primary reason is to break down the tough alum. oxide that covers the surface.

If you do proceed to weld it and manage to do it without weld bead cracking, during riding it is very likely to crack again alongside the weld (the HAZ).
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:05 AM   #3972
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We have a compressor at work that started leaking oil. It was from a weld where a foot was welded on for mounting. Coupler went bad and it started vibrating, hence the crack. Tank is 1/2" thick and was full of oil. Curious to see how the person would go about repairing it.

We called a few people to get it repaired and a R stamp for inspection.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:16 AM   #3973
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From personal experience in commercial applications- welded aluminum will crack again at the weld unless finished and welded correctly. Weld it,then grind off the weld so you don't make a stress point there and call it a day unless his scooter goes pretty fast. The picture will do good in determining stress points.

At one point in time I started welding perpendicular lines across our fender welds,they'd hold longer,but would eventually fail at a weld again and normally follow the thicker bead of repaired aluminum. Those that I ground back flat had much less of a failure rate. By design the fenders flex going down the road. While I'm not an engineer by trade,I'm assuming the thicker welded area was more rigid andthe added stiffness caused the cracks.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:28 AM   #3974
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Originally Posted by griffo1962 View Post
I think it was general use and jumping it. It started out approx 10mm and is now about 50mm long. got it 4043 filler.
Do you have any experience with gas (oa) welding aluminium? lots of youtube videos showing it being done.....
I have done a very little bit of gas welding Aluminum with a Henrob torch. the Henrob isn't magic, but the low pressure helps to not blow through the puddle. It works. But, it puts a lot of heat into the piece. This is great for aluminum bodywork, gastanks, stuff that is needs post weld forming as it comes out annealed.

I would think TIG would put a lot less heat into the piece.

Eric
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:42 PM   #3975
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I have done a very little bit of gas welding Aluminum with a Henrob torch. the Henrob isn't magic, but the low pressure helps to not blow through the puddle. It works. But, it puts a lot of heat into the piece. This is great for aluminum bodywork, gastanks, stuff that is needs post weld forming as it comes out annealed.

I would think TIG would put a lot less heat into the piece.

Eric

I have a Henrob as well. Only used it a few times but really like it so far. Going out today to try and find the supplies I need.....
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