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Old 03-13-2007, 11:56 AM   #61
KTM640Dakar OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CR_TurboGuy
New to all this. Lincoln SP175, not the plus. Welding 16ga steel tubing. .25 wire. About what settings should I use, and what pressure should I set the gas at (CO2/Argon mix)?

--JOsh
Hi Josh,

There is a sticker on the inside of the Lincoln SP-175T door that has a chart on it. The decal has all of the setting info that you will need. First look up the wire size that you are using on the chart. Then the gas type Ar/CO2. The top of the chart has material thickness settings. They call out a number and letter according to the thickness with the number standing for wire feed speed and the letter standing for voltage. These settings are dead on. You should also set up the polarity so that the DC+ wire goes to the gun and the DC- goes to the ground clamp. Your flow rate for gas should be around 25 to 30 CFH. Make sure that there is no wind blowing in the area that you are welding in. Wind will cause your shielding gas 75/25 to blow away from the weld puddle and porosity will result. And no body wants welds with holes in them. Also maintain a 1/2 inch distance between the torch tip and the top of your weld puddle. Also push the gun with a 15 degree angle so you can direct the arc forward.

75%Argon/25%CO2 is the best gas for these small MIG welders.

Try .025 Super Arc L-56 wire in your SP-175T. It is the wire that was sent with the machine originally, and it is very strong wire that will feed the best and give you a nice clean weld.

good luck!
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:29 PM   #62
roverjohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM640Dakar
The extension cord is what is hurting you. Plug the unit directly into the wall. You probably have a capacitor bank that is trying to load up along with the cooling fan kicking in. You can't use an extention cord if you want to draw the minumum amount of amperage from the wall outlet.

It could also be the machine protecting itself from low input voltage. Another reason to not use an extension cord.
Um, I'm pretty sure that any extention cord will increase the resistance of the feed side of the circuit and therefor slow the inrush current not increase it. An extention cord helped the problem so a longer one could in theory help it more. A machine that blows the wall breaker to 'protect itself' needs to be redesigned so that likely isn't it either but good try. If it were me I would suspect that the guy's breaker might be worn out from all the breaking. The fault is intermitent so I'd look there first.
John...

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Old 03-13-2007, 05:49 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roverjohn
Um, I'm pretty sure that any extention cord will increase the resistance of the feed side of the circuit and therefor slow the inrush current not increase it. An extention cord helped the problem so a longer on could in theory help it more. A machine that blows the wall breaker to 'protect itself' needs to be redesigned so that likely isn't it either but good try. If it were me I would suspect that the guy's breaker might be worn out from all the breaking. The fault is intermitent so I'd look there first.
John...


You have it backwards.

Yes an extension cord will raise the resistance in the curcuit and require MORE amperage to keep the correct voltage thus the breaker sees a higher AMPERAGE/CURRENT and fails. So using Ohm's law if V=IR the larger the R(resistance) the larger the I(current or amperage) to maintain V at 115volts.


DON'T use an extention cord between the wall outlet and the welders plug. Plug the welders cord into the wall outlet directly.

You are right that you may also have caused the breaker to weaken and tend to trip more. So replace it.
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:25 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM640Dakar
You have it backwards.

Yes an extension cord will raise the resistance in the curcuit and require MORE amperage to keep the correct voltage thus the breaker sees a higher AMPERAGE/CURRENT and fails. So using Ohm's law if V=IR the larger the R(resistance) the larger the I(current or amperage) to maintain V at 115volts.


DON'T use an extention cord between the wall outlet and the welders plug. Plug the welders cord into the wall outlet directly.

You are right that you may also have caused the breaker to weaken and tend to trip more. So replace it.
You've got it wrong again I'm afraid. First, when you add a resistor in series(the cord) it causes a voltage drop farther along the line. So, the voltage is not "maintained", it is reduced at the 1rst posters welder. Reduced voltage at the welder will cause less current not more, just use Ohm's law. It really is kind of illogical to think a welder has the capability to "ask" for more voltage from a wall plug. Secondly, we know adding resistance(the cord) to the line helped the guy's problem so there are a couple of guesses that would be a lot more helpful than removing what helped.
A. Have the first poster check what his line voltage actually is. I see 128vac at my house all the time and that would be a far more likely reason for high inrush currents, per Ohm's law. I've had to redesign the power supplies in all my old tube audio gear that was designed for the 115vac you are presuming to keep them from overheating.
B. The guy might want to call the welders manufacturer after measuring wall voltage to see if there isn't a possible modification to his welder and this is assuming that such a current limiting circuit even excists in his unit.
C. replace the breaker first. It's cheap and can do no harm unless the first guy electrcutes himself.

John.....
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:42 AM   #65
gsweave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benp1981
I have a panasonic 260P gunslinger which is the combo Mig/Plasma cutter machine. It will intermittantly trip the breaker in the garage's panel when I first flip it on. The problem has been reduced, But not eliminated, with the use of a 25' extension cord rated for the amperage.

I've gone so far as to replace the breaker the welder called for (40 or 50 amps I think) to 100 amps and it still trips every once in awhile.

The breaker only trips on startup of the machine, Not in use.

what can I do to fix this annoying problem?


Todd is correct, lose the extension cord.



Does anything else draw power from this circuit?

Go back to a new 50 amp breaker.


What size is the feed wire? Is it rated for your usage?

Are all connections tight?
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:42 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM640Dakar
Welding is like riding a bike. Once you learn it you will get up to speed quickly even if it has been awhile.

Yes, a great project for stick welding. Frames are nice and heavy and will take the heat of welding easy.
Try using a 7018 stick electrode. If you use a 1/8 inch diameter stick set your machine to DC+ and use about 95 amps if you are welding overhead, or 105 amps if you can weld in the flat position.

If you have not welded in a while try a 6013 electrode. It is a little easier to run. Both will over match the strength of your frame.

I hate to be a pest but this is probably very bad advice. Frames are usually high carbon steel and also tend to get heat treated after any welding is done on them. This is why you see stickers that say "NO WELDING" on truck frames. Welding will create stress risers in his frame if it's made from heat treated high carbon steel which may weaken it when he wanted to reinforce it. He should first contact Airsteam, if they are still around, or one of their huge user groups to find out what his chassis is made from before any recomendations can be made as to possible reinforcements. I really have no idea what Airsteam frames are made of so I would never risk being wrong by giving bad advice about welding on them but that's just me.
John...
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:52 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsweave
Todd is correct, lose the extension cord.



Does anything else draw power from this circuit?

Go back to a new 50 amp breaker.


What size is the feed wire? Is it rated for your usage?

Are all connections tight?
This is an interesting combination of both good and bad advice.
The good: go back to a 50 amp breaker and make sure your connections are tight. Check to make sure nothing else is on the circuit which is unlikely to be an issue because the breaker still breaks even with a 100A breaker in place.
The bad: Scott being correct and losing the cord.

A cord can not possibly be causing the guys problem. All a cord can ever do is reduce the available power at the welder which can't cause a breaker to ever break. Undersized feed wire will just act as a fuse(which is very bad) it can't cause the breaker to break.

I'll assume the the Gunslinger is a single phase 220 machine in which case poor connections could be the issue along with some sort of ground fault. The cord however can not be.

John...

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Old 03-14-2007, 07:55 AM   #68
gsweave
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Well this little bracket job is complete.








Cleaned up of paint.












Small tacks, at 75 amps, just to keep the heat from pulling work piece
toward the heat.










Final burn at 90 amps, using a McKay GP rod. Stick welder.











Doesn't need much cleaning up.






Just repaint and install.





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Old 03-14-2007, 11:04 AM   #69
gsweave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roverjohn
This is an interesting combination of both good and bad advice.
The good: go back to a 50 amp breaker and make sure your connections are tight. Check to make sure nothing else is on the circuit which is unlikely to be an issue because the breaker still breaks even with a 100A breaker in place.
The bad: Scott being correct and losing the cord.

A cord can not possibly be causing the guys problem. All a cord can ever do is reduce the available power at the welder which can't cause a breaker to ever break. Undersized feed wire will just act as a fuse(which is very bad) it can't cause the breaker to break.

I'll assume the the Gunslinger is a single phase 220 machine in which case poor connections could be the issue along with some sort of ground fault. The cord however can not be.

John...

When you can find a welder mfg that recommends an extension cord as an upgrade to their equipment, let me know


They all suggest against em.



Right now, the extension is masking/confusing his real problem.
Eliminate it from the problem.

Continue to troubleshoot other causes.
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gsweave screwed with this post 03-14-2007 at 11:24 AM
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Old 03-14-2007, 12:19 PM   #70
roverjohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsweave
When you can find a welder mfg that recommends an extension cord as an upgrade to their equipment, let me know


They all suggest against em.



Right now, the extension is masking/confusing his real problem.
Eliminate it from the problem.

Continue to troubleshoot other causes.
All welders use some sort of power cord, extension or not. If the cord is sized properly and terminated correctly there is no difference between an extension cord and hard wiring. You have no idea, based on the info provided by the original poster, that the cord is masking or confusing anything. The cord appears to be helping but you choose to ignore that. I took the time to go look at the Panasonic machine the guy has and it appears to be inverter based but I could be wrong because they never call it that. The guy could test his current wiring by simply borrowing another welder and seeing how his circuit handles it. If it's fine with another welder then there is likely an intermittant fault within his machine.
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:02 PM   #71
CR_TurboGuy
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Any ideas on plastic welding? http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212534

--JOsh
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:44 PM   #72
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Welding CrMo

I need to weld a bolting mount on the steering head of my KTM950SE. I see they claim the frame is Chrome Moly. I have built a number of frames in the past but bronze welded them as I used thin wall 4130 tube. I have always been a little confused with all the dirt bikes claiming to be CrMo and yet they all appear to be MIG welded. Now when I did my research into 4130 I found it to be an air hardening steel. The electric arc welding processes (and poor gas welding technique) obviously take the material up to the critical hardening temperatures so I would imagine that the HAZ would be very brittle. This is unless they use a tempering process, which I would doubt due to cost. So what is it that the manufacturers are doing to prevent this? My conclusion is that they are simply using thicker walled tube to disipate heat and reduce the HAZ problems. It seems that they could actually make the frames considerably lighter if they used a lower temp welding process or post heat treatment. But I guess it all comes down to cost.

However I digress from my inital enquiry of welding a boss on to the steering head for a bolting bracket.

Like I said any 4130 work I have ever done is with oxy, paying particular attention to not getting the material too hot. (I use Phosphor Bronze BTW)

Question: Can I use the quick and dirty method of MIG welding the brackets on without worrying about any practical metalurgical problems? Of should I use the tried and proven bronze welding.

The rest of the frame is MIGed so I am sure it is going to be OK, but wouldl like an expert opnion please.

Thanks
Pilbara
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:53 PM   #73
KTM640Dakar OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roverjohn
All welders use some sort of power cord, extension or not. If the cord is sized properly and terminated correctly there is no difference between an extension cord and hard wiring. You have no idea, based on the info provided by the original poster, that the cord is masking or confusing anything. The cord appears to be helping but you choose to ignore that. I took the time to go look at the Panasonic machine the guy has and it appears to be inverter based but I could be wrong because they never call it that. The guy could test his current wiring by simply borrowing another welder and seeing how his circuit handles it. If it's fine with another welder then there is likely an intermittant fault within his machine.
Roverjohn,

You have enthusiasum. Here is some background for you so you don't think I'm talking out of my backside...

I work for The Lincoln Electric Company, we are the worlds largest manufacturer of arc welding equipment and electrode. I have a Bachelors Degree in Welding Engineering form the Ohio State University. I can tell you with 100% certainty that using an extension cord on any manufacturers welder is foolishness. You are not helping the machine or your circuit breaker by adding more resistance to your circuit(in the form of an extension cord). Electricity is not plumbing.

As far as advice for the Airstream trailer. The frame is mild steel. Airstream is located in Jackson Center Ohio near where I used to live, and it is fine to weld there frame. You are confusing a semi-truck frame (which is not to be welded due to heat treat issues), and a camper frame.


I don't mean to be a jerk but we don't want to misinform anyone. Welding is a very important process that needs to be carefully applied because many times your safety is riding on proper welds.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:54 PM   #74
KTM640Dakar OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsweave
Well this little bracket job is complete.








Cleaned up of paint.












Small tacks, at 75 amps, just to keep the heat from pulling work piece
toward the heat.










Final burn at 90 amps, using a McKay GP rod. Stick welder.











Doesn't need much cleaning up.






Just repaint and install.





That turned out great.
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Old 03-14-2007, 03:17 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilbara
I need to weld a bolting mount on the steering head of my KTM950SE. I see they claim the frame is Chrome Moly. I have built a number of frames in the past but bronze welded them as I used thin wall 4130 tube. I have always been a little confused with all the dirt bikes claiming to be CrMo and yet they all appear to be MIG welded. Now when I did my research into 4130 I found it to be an air hardening steel. The electric arc welding processes (and poor gas welding technique) obviously take the material up to the critical hardening temperatures so I would imagine that the HAZ would be very brittle. This is unless they use a tempering process, which I would doubt due to cost. So what is it that the manufacturers are doing to prevent this? My conclusion is that they are simply using thicker walled tube to disipate heat and reduce the HAZ problems. It seems that they could actually make the frames considerably lighter if they used a lower temp welding process or post heat treatment. But I guess it all comes down to cost.

However I digress from my inital enquiry of welding a boss on to the steering head for a bolting bracket.

Like I said any 4130 work I have ever done is with oxy, paying particular attention to not getting the material too hot. (I use Phosphor Bronze BTW)

Question: Can I use the quick and dirty method of MIG welding the brackets on without worrying about any practical metalurgical problems? Of should I use the tried and proven bronze welding.

The rest of the frame is MIGed so I am sure it is going to be OK, but wouldl like an expert opnion please.

Thanks
Pilbara
Yes you can MIG weld it. Chrome Molly tubing is usually welded with a wire called Super Arc LA-90. It is an ER80S-D2 welding wire. You should use .035 diameter with 90%Argon/10%CO2 shielding gas. The only real issue with 4130 CrMo tubing is that it has a higher carbon content. The trick to successfully welding it is to let it cool slowly so the carbon does not turn to martensite that has a crack sensitive microstructure. Don't quench it with water or it would get brittle. In fact it is always a good idea to weld in a hot garage verses a cold garage. Metal that is cooled quickly will be harder and more brittle then metal that is slowly cooled. Most of the time with mild steel it is not as important, but with steels that have higher carbon levels at about .03% carbon like your 4130 you need to possibly preheat too if it was a very thick section.

Just make sure your parts are at 70 degrees or warmer when you weld. Not 32 degrees F like my garage.
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