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Old 02-03-2009, 03:59 PM   #766
Skippii
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Oxy-propane

First off...thanks for all the great info I've learned from this thread already.

Here's my next question.

I've been looking into inexpensive ways to repair aluminum. I've tried a few methods using completely inappropriate equipment, and have failed at all of them. No shock there.
Additionally, my dremel tool is starting to get a little tired of cutting through steel.

Anyway, from what I've read, it seems like an Oxy-propane rig would suit my purposes perfectly.

Here's what I understand about them, please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. Cheap initial set-up cost.
2. Cheap gas use, even though it uses more oxy than Oxy-Acetylene.
3. Perfect for cutting steel.
4. Easily hot enough for welding aluminum.

Here are where I have some questions:

5. I hear it works better with a "Injector Torch" than an "Equal Pressure Torch". I've also heard it works okay with an oxy-acetylene torch, which I understand IS an "equal-pressure" torch. I'm not sure if this referrs to the welding torches, cutting torches, or both.

6. For the welding torch, is it just a matter of being able to adjust the regulators for a different oxy/fuel ratio, or is there another reason why the injector style is (or might be) needed?

7. Okay, if it DOES work fine on an oxy-acetylene torch, and Oxy-acetylene regulators, I've also heard that the hoses are incompatable, and that propane will dissolve through the acetylene hoses, leak out, explode, and kill everyone in the area. Is this true?

8. Now, because I'm not a complete idiot, after hearing these things, I decided that it would not be a good idea to run propane through an Oxy-Acetylene rig. So I searched for Oxy-propane set-ups. And I coudn't find anything. I mean, nothing. Any advice?

9. I did, however, find many individual parts to build a propane rig at online welding shops. These seems to be a very expensive way of doing it. Like, four times as expensive as buying an oxy-acetylene set-up. So, I don't understand how everyone is saying that propane welding is much cheaper to get into than acetylene.

10. Oxy-Acetylene torch kits cost around $100, not including cylinders. Is there any possible way I could get an oxy-propane rig for light steel cutting and aluminum welding for anywhere near this price? Or should I just go for the Oxy-Acetylene route and not bother with propane?

I know that's a lot of questions, but I figure if anyone can answer all that, it's you guys from this thread. Many thanks!
-Skippii
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:46 PM   #767
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My only comment is that (speaking as an amateur) torch welding aluminum is MUCH harder than TIG welding aluminum.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:15 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSWayne
My only comment is that (speaking as an amateur) torch welding aluminum is MUCH harder than TIG welding aluminum.
I don't doubt it, but I've not had any luck finding a TIG welder for around $100.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:42 PM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippii
Does an AC Aluminum stick-welding rod exist? Because I can't find one.
No AC only DC.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:44 PM   #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippii
What happens if I swap out the rod holder on my stick welder and replace it with a tungsten tip?
Could I then use it as an oxy-actylene torch and weld like that, or even use it for brazing? Obviously I'd need a lot of flux or inert gas, and it would never be as good as a TIG or OxyAcet, but would it work?

(I realize this is a pretty stupid question. Asking these types of questions seems to help me to better understand the underlying priciples of how stuff works.)
No it is a bad idea to hold a tungsten in an electrode stinger. You will not be able to shield the electrode with Argon and you could shock yourself.

You can buy a torch that will make your stick welder run TIG but you need the tig torch.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:53 PM   #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippii
First off...thanks for all the great info I've learned from this thread already.

Here's my next question.

I've been looking into inexpensive ways to repair aluminum. I've tried a few methods using completely inappropriate equipment, and have failed at all of them. No shock there.
Additionally, my dremel tool is starting to get a little tired of cutting through steel.

Anyway, from what I've read, it seems like an Oxy-propane rig would suit my purposes perfectly.

Here's what I understand about them, please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. Cheap initial set-up cost.
2. Cheap gas use, even though it uses more oxy than Oxy-Acetylene.
3. Perfect for cutting steel.
4. Easily hot enough for welding aluminum.

Here are where I have some questions:

5. I hear it works better with a "Injector Torch" than an "Equal Pressure Torch". I've also heard it works okay with an oxy-acetylene torch, which I understand IS an "equal-pressure" torch. I'm not sure if this referrs to the welding torches, cutting torches, or both.

6. For the welding torch, is it just a matter of being able to adjust the regulators for a different oxy/fuel ratio, or is there another reason why the injector style is (or might be) needed?

7. Okay, if it DOES work fine on an oxy-acetylene torch, and Oxy-acetylene regulators, I've also heard that the hoses are incompatable, and that propane will dissolve through the acetylene hoses, leak out, explode, and kill everyone in the area. Is this true?

8. Now, because I'm not a complete idiot, after hearing these things, I decided that it would not be a good idea to run propane through an Oxy-Acetylene rig. So I searched for Oxy-propane set-ups. And I coudn't find anything. I mean, nothing. Any advice?

9. I did, however, find many individual parts to build a propane rig at online welding shops. These seems to be a very expensive way of doing it. Like, four times as expensive as buying an oxy-acetylene set-up. So, I don't understand how everyone is saying that propane welding is much cheaper to get into than acetylene.

10. Oxy-Acetylene torch kits cost around $100, not including cylinders. Is there any possible way I could get an oxy-propane rig for light steel cutting and aluminum welding for anywhere near this price? Or should I just go for the Oxy-Acetylene route and not bother with propane?

I know that's a lot of questions, but I figure if anyone can answer all that, it's you guys from this thread. Many thanks!
-Skippii

Skippii you will pay alot more for a good torch outfit and gas bottles than you might think. Go to Home depot or lowes and look at the low cost mig welders. Lincoln makes an HD3800 that is very affordable. You can get an aluminum spool gun for about $150 that will make any aluminum project a breeze.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:56 PM   #772
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If you want a heat source from a stick welder look into carbon arc torches. I have used those to braze. You could not use them to weld because there is not shielding gas.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:28 PM   #773
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Thanks for the replies.

I went to two different welding shops today - a local one and an Airgas outlet and asked both about oxy-propane welding for aluminum.
They both said that oxy-propane is a good set-up for cutting torches, but they've never heard anyone use oxy-propane for welding aluminum in 30 years in the business.

Responses I got ranged from "Huh....I guess that might work," to "Really? I've read a lot of shit on the Internet, too!"

Basically, it seems like Oxy-propane is way, way more expensive than a cheap O/A rig like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230323352777

So what's the deal with these?
Yeah, they are cheap. I'm not looking for serious equipment. I'm looking for cheap, to do occasional jobs as a hobbyist. Basically, I'm looking for cheap fun.
Will they hold up to that kind of stuff?

Or, like you said, would it be better just to get something like this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94056
It might be a bit cheaper, but is it as much fun as working with a giant oxy-acetylene flame?
On the otherhand, getting frustrated because I didn't buy the right thing isnt much fun, either.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:33 PM   #774
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Two other random questions:

What the heck is a welding spoon?

If you AC arc-weld with 6013 or 7014 on stainless steel, what happens? I figured it wouldn't work well, but the local welding/gas shop guy says it works just fine...only problem is the weld is prone to rusting. He says if you spray some paint over the weld, it doesn't matter what rod you use. Is he correct?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:58 PM   #775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippii
Two other random questions:

What the heck is a welding spoon?

If you AC arc-weld with 6013 or 7014 on stainless steel, what happens? I figured it wouldn't work well, but the local welding/gas shop guy says it works just fine...only problem is the weld is prone to rusting. He says if you spray some paint over the weld, it doesn't matter what rod you use. Is he correct?
When welding stainless, consult a Schaeffler diagram. Some grades of stainless require a mild steel root pass to balance out the chromium equivalent.

If you're not doing a multiple pass weld, normally you'll want to use a low carbon stainless rod (weld 304 basemetal with 304L rods).

Welding spoon, or Heat Spoon, is used to back up critical butt welds on light gauge steel to prevent burn thru and minimize warpage. Also excellent for filling small holes and tears in sheet metal panels.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:14 PM   #776
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Although I've not personally gas welded aluminum, I've watched it done on race car bodies and watched a guy try to learn and practice for weeks. It sure looked like it was more art than technique to me. I highly doubt that you could just jump in once every blue moon and produce a weld that would be worth a hoot. It is very difficult to determine when the puddle is forming as the color doesn't change much and then the whole piece is too hot and everything gone to hell in a hand basket in a hurry.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:27 PM   #777
Skippii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarstow
When welding stainless, consult a Schaeffler diagram. Some grades of stainless require a mild steel root pass to balance out the chromium equivalent.

If you're not doing a multiple pass weld, normally you'll want to use a low carbon stainless rod (weld 304 basemetal with 304L rods).
So...is that a yes? I can use any mild rod on stainless?

Quote:
Welding spoon, or Heat Spoon, is used to back up critical butt welds on light gauge steel to prevent burn thru and minimize warpage. Also excellent for filling small holes and tears in sheet metal panels.
You mean it's not a spoon? or is it just a spoon shape?
This place (with a familiar sounding description) sells flat welding spoons...which look like putty knives.

I'm guessing this isn't a ladel you use to pour extra heat on metal, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to use it...unless you do actually use it just like a putty knife to fill holes with molten steel, which I somehow doubt.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:28 PM   #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippii
Thanks for the replies.

I went to two different welding shops today - a local one and an Airgas outlet and asked both about oxy-propane welding for aluminum.
They both said that oxy-propane is a good set-up for cutting torches, but they've never heard anyone use oxy-propane for welding aluminum in 30 years in the business.

Responses I got ranged from "Huh....I guess that might work," to "Really? I've read a lot of shit on the Internet, too!"

Basically, it seems like Oxy-propane is way, way more expensive than a cheap O/A rig like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230323352777

So what's the deal with these?
Yeah, they are cheap. I'm not looking for serious equipment. I'm looking for cheap, to do occasional jobs as a hobbyist. Basically, I'm looking for cheap fun.
Will they hold up to that kind of stuff?

Or, like you said, would it be better just to get something like this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94056
It might be a bit cheaper, but is it as much fun as working with a giant oxy-acetylene flame?
On the otherhand, getting frustrated because I didn't buy the right thing isnt much fun, either.
I found a reference to torch welding aluminum and they suggested an oxyhydrogen flame and a special blue goggles to better see the melted aluminum.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:28 PM   #779
Skippii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad
Although I've not personally gas welded aluminum, I've watched it done on race car bodies and watched a guy try to learn and practice for weeks. It sure looked like it was more art than technique to me. I highly doubt that you could just jump in once every blue moon and produce a weld that would be worth a hoot. It is very difficult to determine when the puddle is forming as the color doesn't change much and then the whole piece is too hot and everything gone to hell in a hand basket in a hurry.
Good to know. I won't bother with it, then.
Thanks.
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Old 02-05-2009, 06:48 PM   #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippii
So...is that a yes? I can use any mild rod on stainless?



You mean it's not a spoon? or is it just a spoon shape?
This place (with a familiar sounding description) sells flat welding spoons...which look like putty knives.

I'm guessing this isn't a ladel you use to pour extra heat on metal, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to use it...unless you do actually use it just like a putty knife to fill holes with molten steel, which I somehow doubt.

Oh, I think I get it.
You put it against the metal on one side of the hole, weld the other side, and the spoon won't stick to it, right?

Like this?
http://www.2002tii-restoration.org/p...quarter_01.htm
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