ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-30-2009, 10:48 AM   #1051
Strong Bad
n00balicious
 
Strong Bad's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Oddometer: 3,849
I was think'n barbed wire from a fence, I know that there is no more copper in the Valley.
__________________
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it."
Strong Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 10:51 AM   #1052
tundrawolf
Desert Rat V Star
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Lucerne Valley, California
Oddometer: 313
Ha! Good point! (Not to hijack..) Did you hear a few years ago about the people who ripped the copper pipe from the DMV for the purpose of scrapping it? lol!! They didn't have water for a time because of it.
tundrawolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 03:31 PM   #1053
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,824

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundrawolf
Ha! Good point! (Not to hijack..) Did you hear a few years ago about the people who ripped the copper pipe from the DMV for the purpose of scrapping it? lol!! They didn't have water for a time because of it.
Posted by: KTM640Dakar
Your oldtimer reminds me that there are alot of Lincoln Pipliner welders buried in the permafrost along the Alaska Pipeline. It was cheaper to bury them then take them out.

I bet there's a lot of good copper in those welders.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2009, 10:33 AM   #1054
tenderfoot
PRJ
 
tenderfoot's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Gauteng, RSA
Oddometer: 1,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzzly
I wouldn’t think that would be a problem, the bearing are in oil
If the bearing forms part of the current's route it will flow through the minute contact points where the rollers touch the inner and outer rings. These contact points are to small to easily carry the current and consequently over heat and get "arc welded" causing rough spots which will eventually lead to failure.
A trick question to any tradesman doing welding on a plant is "Where is your earth connected" followed by " Show me the route your current is taking" invariably you'll find a large, expensive and 2-year lead-time white metal bearing at risk.
tenderfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2009, 02:29 PM   #1055
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,273
Hey, welding wizard, care to buy a vacuum chamber for welding titanium? pm me
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 05:51 PM   #1056
Tslapper
#!
 
Tslapper's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Mainely here
Oddometer: 6,154
I welded some aluminum tonight. I haven't TIG welded since 1982, except for a short stint in 85. I was pretty good at it, Navy trained. Anyway, this is some 5052 in 3/16". I've got some plates cut up to make a fuel cell. This is practice stuff.

So I can tell you that I tip'd up right after starting this weld and balled up my filler rod. Got too high on the filler. Got a decent rhythm going after that. I'm friggen 48, maybe I can get some of this back.

My question is this. I can't remember what to use to etch the side of a cut weld to raise it so I can see penetration? I'll cut this open and check that out. I have a lot of practice to do otherwise.

Tslapper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 06:08 PM   #1057
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,824


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslapper
My question is this. I can't remember what to use to etch the side of a cut weld to raise it so I can see penetration? I'll cut this open and check that out.
If you get the cut surface more or less smooth-ish, hydrochloric acid will do the trick. aka Muriatic acid in the pool chemicals section of the hardware store.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 06:10 PM   #1058
Tslapper
#!
 
Tslapper's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Mainely here
Oddometer: 6,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


If you get the cut surface more or less smooth-ish, hydrochloric acid will do the trick. aka Muriatic acid in the pool chemicals section of the hardware store.

That jogs the memory! We used to sand them smooth in class.

Thanks dude!
Tslapper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 06:23 PM   #1059
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,824

Sure. Post up a picture or two.

After you etch the piece, you can neutralize the acid with a water rinse and apply a spoonful of baking soda slurry. Note, it doesn't take much water to make a slurry with baking soda.

Careful where you store that acid. Over time, the fumes will cause severe rust or decompose nearby metal.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 07:47 PM   #1060
Strong Bad
n00balicious
 
Strong Bad's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Oddometer: 3,849
On 3/16 what's to etch?? flip er over and look, it should be 100% penetration. Usually etching is done on humungusly thick plate that is beveled and you are looking to see how each of multiple passes tie into the base and each other.
__________________
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it."
Strong Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 03:15 AM   #1061
Tslapper
#!
 
Tslapper's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Mainely here
Oddometer: 6,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad
On 3/16 what's to etch?? flip er over and look, it should be 100% penetration. Usually etching is done on humungusly thick plate that is beveled and you are looking to see how each of multiple passes tie into the base and each other.
Even with a butt / lapped joint like that? That seems to be a lot of heat and I'm concerned about warping. My max heat is at 140 and I was bumping that.

I guess that brings up the question. How should the box be welded for maximum strength, should the edges come together to form a V or overlap? I can see getting 100% penetration of the object if I'm filling a V.

Like I said, I have a lot to learn and looking at the resulting penetration from those welds I made last night probably won't hurt. I'll never be more than a hobbyist, but I'm interested in doing it right.
Tslapper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 07:51 AM   #1062
Strong Bad
n00balicious
 
Strong Bad's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Oddometer: 3,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslapper
Even with a butt / lapped joint like that? That seems to be a lot of heat and I'm concerned about warping. My max heat is at 140 and I was bumping that.

I guess that brings up the question. How should the box be welded for maximum strength, should the edges come together to form a V or overlap? I can see getting 100% penetration of the object if I'm filling a V.

Like I said, I have a lot to learn and looking at the resulting penetration from those welds I made last night probably won't hurt. I'll never be more than a hobbyist, but I'm interested in doing it right.
You won't get much warping with aluminum. Stainless sure, aluminum not really a problem.

Bring the edges together to form a V and get that 100%. Think of the lap joint and how hard it is to get 100% pen.

Are you building a true fuel cell with a bladder filled with open cell foam, or are you building a aluminum fuel tank? If you are building an aluminum fuel tank you'll gain a ton of strength with your baffles.
__________________
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it."
Strong Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 09:50 AM   #1063
svejkovat
Studly Adventurer
 
svejkovat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Oddometer: 856
I have not read the whole thread here so I don't know if water cooling has come up.

I converted last year. I learned on water cooled tigs at a factory years ago. I was spoiled enough by this that when I finally got my own 185 amp AC/DC tig I felt encumbered by the air torch. Water cooling is not strictly necessary for under 200 amps, but by building my own cooler and getting a torch online it was a very worthwhile and cost effective 'luxury'. Torch is more compact. Torch cables are 1/3 the weight and stiffness. No perceptible heat at all on the fingertips of the torch hand. All of which goes a long way to improve concentration. (it's actually a little astonishing that you can crank 200amps through a copper braid about the size of common household extension cord merely by water cooling it).

But I do have a question. BTU ratings for TIG cooling needs are maddeningly difficult to come by. Everyone in the industry simply refers back to handy tables and reiterates this accepted wisdom. Based on the published data on my heat exchanger/radiator and working out a couple of simple formulas, my cooler will handle about 6500BTU/HR. This is a little below the low end of commercial coolers which are generally rated from about 8000 to 18000 BTU.

Now intuitively, I just cannot see how a tig torch can necessitate this capacity. I can weld at the edge of my duty rating on fairly beefy aluminum (it's a pretty capable welder actually) and look up at my temp (i added digital temp input and output gauges) and never exceed 100F. I've never exceeded 100F in fact. My radiator is a 6"X12"X2" CPU "overclockers" radiator from a computer supply site. It's roughly equivalent to a compact car heater core. Two 120mm 100CFM muffin fans feed it air. A MicroPump annular gear pump circulates 1.5 quart per minute of distilled water at 20psi (that's bypassed pressure. i can dial it as high as 35psi but 1.5quart/min is exactly what my torch manufacturer specified). This, to remove heat from a tiny length of red hot tungsten!

I designed the cooler with the expectation that it would meet my needs based on the fact that commercial designs are 8000BTU and up. I'm now thinking that a cooler half the size, or even smaller, would suffice for me and 99percent of guys that tig in their own shops like I do.

Where do they get 10000 (for instance) rating requirements for "small"
coolers intended for single operator tig? 10000BTU would remove most of the heat from a fully blazing wood stove for cripes sake. It just seems way overkill. I had read that others had no problem with circulating through a sealed five gallon poly bucket under the bench but was doubtful. Now I think that this would be certainly adequate for the average home shop weldor. I guess I'll never really get a technical answer to this question. But if anyone is hesitating to water cool because the cost of a cooler is prohibitive I'd strongly encourage them to just go the five gallon bucket route. From there it's just a matter of a few brass fittings that your welding supply jobber can order and a small pump.

Pump, incidentally, has to be a 'positive displacement' pump. By far the most common inexpensive pumps are centrifugal impeller types. They'll do, but barely. And the first time the line gets a little kinked or stepped on, the system pressure will not be able to overcome it and your torch/cable investment will go up in smoke. A positive displacement pump (piston, diaphram, gear, sliding vane) will maintain flow across a wide range of pressures. A centrifugal will not. Most common and cost effective PD pump for this use is a 'carbonator' pump. Far quieter than a diaphram pump and less expensive than a gear pump. Brass bodied with carbon sliding vane impeller. Get a used Procon, or FluidOTech off of ebay. You can often find them used with 1/3 or 1/2 hp (another overkill) motor attached for less than 100 bucks. Sometimes way less.

svejkovat screwed with this post 07-15-2009 at 03:14 PM
svejkovat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 12:29 PM   #1064
Tslapper
#!
 
Tslapper's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Mainely here
Oddometer: 6,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad
You won't get much warping with aluminum. Stainless sure, aluminum not really a problem.

Bring the edges together to form a V and get that 100%. Think of the lap joint and how hard it is to get 100% pen.

Are you building a true fuel cell with a bladder filled with open cell foam, or are you building a aluminum fuel tank? If you are building an aluminum fuel tank you'll gain a ton of strength with your baffles.
Aluminum fuel tank. Yes, there will be some baffles in it.

Thanks for the advice!
Tslapper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 03:59 PM   #1065
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,824

Quote:
Originally Posted by svejkovat
I can weld at the edge of my duty rating on fairly beefy aluminum (it's a pretty capable welder actually) and look up at my temp (i added digital temp input and output gauges) and never exceed 100F.
Is 100°F the return line temp? If so, your cooling setup is no doubt sufficient.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014