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Old 11-20-2007, 07:47 AM   #2431
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It looks like Lowell & the Sox are reaching an agreement on a 3-year contract!

More here.
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:51 AM   #2432
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Originally Posted by Gary in Indiana
For one thing, the vote is done BEFORE the post season. That's when Beckett shone over Sabbathia. Also, Sabbathia pitched something like forty more regular season innings than Beckett and got less run support while maintaining slightly better stats in most pitching categories.

Would I have loved to have seen Beckett win the Cy Young? Of course! Was I shocked when Sabbathia won it? Not particularly.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:32 AM   #2433
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Originally Posted by Chacifer
It looks like Lowell & the Sox are reaching an agreement on a 3-year contract!
Certainly resigning Schilling and Lowell were crucial things to the Red Sox and they have completed those tasks. Now the question becomes what are we going to do to improve upon the team we fielded in 2007?

Granted, we have some young players coming up who will step into the lineup (Jacoby Elsbury taking over for Coco Crisp) or rotation/bullpen (Clay Buchholz [who should have been on our post season roster instead of Eric Gagne, not that I'm still bitter ]). What are we doing to improve upon the team by trade or acquisition in the free agent market?

The Angels, who I sincerely believe were the best team in the AL on September first before the key injuries hobbled them, have added Torii Hunter, a seven time Gold Glove winning center fielder who hit .300 in his post season career.

In addition to Hunter, the Angels are the one team always mentioned when the name Miguel Cabrera comes up. Other teams seem to come and go but the stories are always about the Angels and Dodgers, Angels and White Sox, Angels and Dodgers, Angels and Royals, Angels and Giants, etc. If the Angels are able to sign him, with the acquisition of Hunter, they would probably have as potent an offensive lineup as any team in baseball today.
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:56 PM   #2434
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Latest rumor is that the Red Sox are talking to Minnesota about trading for Johan Santana and the Twins want Jacoby Elsbury AND Clay Buchholz in return.

I wouldn't want to see us trade EITHER Elsbury OR Buchholz for Santana, much less both of them. For one thing, Santana is near the end of his contract while we have Elsbury and Buchholz under good contracts right now. For another, even with a sign & trade, Santana is 29 and has had some problems in recent years.

What do I know, though? I was the one screaming, "Don't do it!" when we were trading for Gagne... Oh, wait... I was right on that one...

What do you all think about a) Santana, and b) Santana for Elsbury and Buchholz?
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:58 PM   #2435
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Originally Posted by Gary in Indiana
Latest rumor is that the Red Sox are talking to Minnesota about trading for Johan Santana and the Twins want Jacoby Elsbury AND Clay Buchholz in return.

I wouldn't want to see us trade EITHER Elsbury OR Buchholz for Santana, much less both of them. For one thing, Santana is near the end of his contract while we have Elsbury and Buchholz under good contracts right now. For another, even with a sign & trade, Santana is 29 and has had some problems in recent years.

What do I know, though? I was the one screaming, "Don't do it!" when we were trading for Gagne... Oh, wait... I was right on that one...

What do you all think about a) Santana, and b) Santana for Elsbury and Buchholz?
The Indians owned Santana
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:12 PM   #2436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in Indiana
Latest rumor is that the Red Sox are talking to Minnesota about trading for Johan Santana and the Twins want Jacoby Elsbury AND Clay Buchholz in return....

I wouldn't want to see us trade EITHER Elsbury OR Buchholz for Santana, much less both of them. For one thing, Santana is near the end of his contract while we have Elsbury and Buchholz under good contracts right now. For another, even with a sign & trade, Santana is 29 and has had some problems in recent years.
Not sure about the value of the Sox players, but I am sure any deal will be pending on that 72 hour to work out a contract extension before it becomes finalized.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:15 PM   #2437
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Originally Posted by RichBeBe
I am sure any deal will be pending on that 72 hour to work out a contract extension before it becomes finalized.
I agree and should have mentined that. As Santana has only one year remaining on his contract, this would have to be a sign & trade deal.

As to the Sox players now being offered, it looks like it's gone from two (Elsbury & Buchholz) to four players including neither of them for the Twins' two-time Cy Young Award winner. The Sox would send Coco Crisp, who I think is very expendable, Jonathon Lester, who, for sentimental reasons, I hate to see leave but, pitcher for pitcher, it should be a step up and righty Justin Masterson along with minor league SS Jed Lowry.

We'd be getting older, with Crisp at 28 the only player within half a decade of Santana. Lowry and Lester are each 23 while Masterson is only 22.

I was kind of hoping we could get one of the young catchers who split time for Texas last season from the Rangers for Crisp. They need a center fielder and another catcher would sure help Varitek out and probably extend his career. With Mirabelli, the Captain catches every pitch thrown by anyone but Wakefield. That makes for a long season.

EDIT: Now it appears that the Red Sox ARE willing to part with Jacoby Elsbury in this trade! ESPN is now reporting that the Sox have offered the Twins their choice of Elsbury OR Jon Lester, but not both, along with the other three aforementioned Sox players.

OK, is it just me or is this really getting out of hand now? I'm having Gagne flashbacks here. If we make this trade with Elsbury and Crisp, who's playing center field next season?
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Gary in Indiana screwed with this post 12-02-2007 at 11:31 AM
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:22 AM   #2438
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This Santana trade deal has had more twists and turns than Deal's Gap but it now looks like we'll have him as our left-handed ace starter next season to compliment Beckett as our right-handed ace. With Matsuzaka (who I believe will be better than he was this year), Schilling (the name says it all) and Wakefield (one of the biggest inning eating starters in all of baseball, year in and year out), our starting rotation would seem to be set is everyone stays healthy

The Twins and Sox are meeting as I type and the Twins are going to give the Sox their preference between Elsbury (who they really like) and the combo of Lester & Crisp (which would give them a starter back for Santana and solve their problem in center field since Torii Hunter went to the Angels. I believe either deal will still include another young RHP and our top minor league prospect at SS.
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:25 PM   #2439
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Do they really want to make this trade???? I am happy the Yanks are not giving up two pitching prospects--especially Kennedy--to get Santana. I think Theo may be outsmarting himself here. But hey, we'll see during the season.
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:35 PM   #2440
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I don't see this being a good trade if you are a Sox fan. As a Yankee fan I like it. From the small amount I have seen of Elsbury he is the real deal future star. Crisp is a liability but Lester is a legitimate 23 year old starter.
Schilling still looks good, but how long until it all breaks down? Dice-K is too inconsistent and I think will only get worse. He doesn't have the amazing stuff they thought he did. Wakefield eats innings and can pitch forever, but when he is off he gets rocked. Beckett is great.
But if you get Santana and Beckett you will have two super quality pitchers but giving up a solid 4-5 young pitcher like Lester isn't worth it.
That said I am glad it looks like the Yankees won't make the trade. Melky is too good, and either Kennedy or Hughes look too good too early to trade away. Not sure they will both be super pitchers but I wouldn't get rid of either of then yet.
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:03 PM   #2441
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I, among many, many others, will be very sad to see Jacoby Elsbury leave. A very impressive young man and a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame one day.
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:40 PM   #2442
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Originally Posted by AllanCook
I, among many, many others, will be very sad to see Jacoby Elsbury leave. A very impressive young man and a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame one day.
we're going to be (already are) kicking ourselves for this one. But, Theo is a good GM, and he's proven that he's ahead of the game on a number of things. I was upset when Nomar left, and he's done a whole lotta nothing since leaving. Pedro is another one, but really... we've been fine without him. I guess I want it both ways: continuity in players, that whole loyalty/longevity thing and I want to win, win, win!
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:56 PM   #2443
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I, among many, many others, will be very sad to see Jacoby Elsbury leave. A very impressive young man and a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame one day.
Wow...I think he will be a good solid star to say that someone who has 116 career ML at bats but a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame is some serious insanity from a Sox fan. Talk to us after he has maybe 5,000 at bats.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:22 AM   #2444
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Originally Posted by RichBeBe
I don't see this being a good trade if you are a Sox fan. As a Yankee fan I like it. From the small amount I have seen of Elsbury he is the real deal future star. Crisp is a liability but Lester is a legitimate 23 year old starter.
Schilling still looks good, but how long until it all breaks down? Dice-K is too inconsistent and I think will only get worse. He doesn't have the amazing stuff they thought he did. Wakefield eats innings and can pitch forever, but when he is off he gets rocked. Beckett is great.
But if you get Santana and Beckett you will have two super quality pitchers but giving up a solid 4-5 young pitcher like Lester isn't worth it.
That said I am glad it looks like the Yankees won't make the trade. Melky is too good, and either Kennedy or Hughes look too good too early to trade away. Not sure they will both be super pitchers but I wouldn't get rid of either of then yet.
Rich,

For the most part, I agree with you. I'd have been feeling just as you do if the Yankees had made the trade ("Better them than us"). I don't like giving up Ellsbury, although I just read where he hired Scott Boras as his new agent and I never look at that as a good sign.

Crisp was certainly tradeable and giving up a couple other bodies, including Lester was something I could live with. Putting Ellsbury into the mix was just too much for me.

Now that the Yankees are supposedly out of the running, we might be able to pull one back off the table, but I don't know. While I think Santana is worth maybe four or five more wins than Lester, I think giving up Ellsbury pretty much neutralizes most of that difference.

I wasn't thrilled with trading for Santana early on and said so here. The only thing that's happened since then is that we're giving up more than we were when I didn't like it initially.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:30 AM   #2445
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Sox better do something. Tigers pickup of Cabrerra and Willis just upped the ante in the AL
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