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Old 12-14-2007, 08:25 AM   #2491
Mercury264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-man17
I made a similar piont above. In addition, information about the Indiams pitcher just happened to be leaked prior to his game against the sox during the playoffs. There are actually a number of sox players that would have been very high on the list--most prominently David Ortiz. Besides the rumors Ortiz exhibits the classic symptoms of someone who has used steroids, in terms of his body wearing down. My point is the innuendo and rumor mill that Mitchell used as his evidence for public disclosure is compeltely wrong. If they aren't going to bring criminal charges no names should have been provided.
I too have bad knees. What do I have in common with Ortiz I hear you ask ? We're both fat bastards. I think that is the reason for his bad knees - have you seen the size of the guy
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:48 PM   #2492
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The argument about steroids hinged on the "marginal" players who were juiced to stay in The Show. Now it is revealed that the top players were using steroids.

In almost every sport, performance enhancing drugs are used as part of the ability to be competitive. Track is juiced tot he point that even the craziest East German coaches of the 80s couldn't imagine.

Cycling? Always one step ahead of the judges.

I joke with some of my musician friends about doping and they tell me that classical artists use beta blockers to "expand time".

Who is going to stop this? How could you stop it? What peak performer wouldn't try something to make him or her perform better? Working harder doesn't help that much. Natural talent is leveled off, to the point where the pressure to succeed a search for that edge.

Try to stop it, I dare you. Stop the tide, Canute, stop the tide.
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:50 PM   #2493
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Rich- many kudos on manning up and flying the greatest logo in sports history. I also took up your bet, if fact, if memory serves me well, I was the first.

It is too bad that you choose to stop on the 31st. Maybe you can get a bet going on the Pats- Jets game.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:20 PM   #2494
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Two things come to mind here. The first had to do with Clemens.

When Clemens was in his last year in Boston, it certainly looked like he was trailing off as a pitcher. I was OK with it when we didn't resign him in 1996. He went to Toronto where he hooked up with the major witness in these hearings who became his and Andy Petite's personal trainer. Not coincidentally, that's when his revitalization as a pitcher began. Certainly, he started training more than he had at Fenway and that begs the question of what truly prompted that. The possibility that he had something helping him train more and harder and recover faster would certainly fit in.

The second point that comes to mind is the apparent inequity in having a Red Sox board member involved in this whole investigation. I'm a huge Sox fan as anyone here can see, but that was wrong. As much as I'd like to believe there was no information available about any current Sox player, I find it difficult to believe that a Sox board member wouldn't have been in a position to steer the focus of this investigation.s
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Old 12-16-2007, 03:31 AM   #2495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in Indiana
The second point that comes to mind is the apparent inequity in having a Red Sox board member involved in this whole investigation. I'm a huge Sox fan as anyone here can see, but that was wrong. As much as I'd like to believe there was no information available about any current Sox player, I find it difficult to believe that a Sox board member wouldn't have been in a position to steer the focus of this investigation.s
I've been thinking the same thing.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:19 AM   #2496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacifer
I've been thinking the same thing.
You lawyers are such cynics.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:01 AM   #2497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray of Sunshine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacifer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in Indiana
The second point that comes to mind is the apparent inequity in having a Red Sox board member involved in this whole investigation. I'm a huge Sox fan as anyone here can see, but that was wrong. As much as I'd like to believe there was no information available about any current Sox player, I find it difficult to believe that a Sox board member wouldn't have been in a position to steer the focus of this investigation.
I've been thinking the same thing.
You lawyers are such cynics.
As are we fathers of lawyers, apparently...
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:24 AM   #2498
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I think George Mitchell is a man of integrity.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:27 PM   #2499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto
I think George Mitchell is a man of integrity.
Please understand that I'm not questioning George Mitchell's integrity here. I'm simply asking that we consider that everyone involved with the investigation knew of his association/affiliation with the Red Sox. That alone may have been enough to cause one of the many people involved at the grass roots level to turn their attention to other players on other teams rather than following up things regarding the Sox as thoroughly as they might have had this investigation been headed up by someone else. I doubt that the results would have been the same if this were spearheaded by someone on the Yankee's board of directors, for example.

My beliefs aside, this, to me, is a clear example of why it is not enough to simply avoid impropriety. One must avoid even the appearance of impropriety or the possibility of impropriety. Regardless of his personal abilities or level of integrity, no one with any affiliation with any team should have been involved in this investigation, much less acting as the head of it.
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:45 PM   #2500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto
I think George Mitchell is a man of integrity.
Mr. Mitchell has spent his life as a partisan and I do not believe he leaves that role easily. He is on the board of the Sox and has a fiduciary duty to protect the team, this is not just the appearance of a conflict it is an actual conflict. Why one would believe Mitchell over Clemens, I do not know. Does one have a more demonstrable history of credibility? I don't believe so. I do know that the people talking to Mitchell ratted to get immunity and I do believe that history is replete with examples of people fabricating out of whole clothe stories to get themselves out of trouble. I prefer to believe Clemens until proof has been provided otherwise.

As to Mithcell this will become a deserved blotch on his career.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:50 PM   #2501
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Rocket says he didn't take no steroids.



That's enough for me.
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:43 PM   #2502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanCook
Rocket says he didn't take no steroids.



That's enough for me.
Its enough for me until someone comes up with somthing credible.

Right now its a he said he said. Mitchell and Co. have proved that they are not above unethical behavior so I will stick with the Rocket.
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:34 AM   #2503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBeBe
I was thinking of those silly bets that mayor's make. Any Sux fans want to make a friendly wager?
I will say the Yankees will make it further than the Sux in the post season. Here is the bet, if the Sux make it further I will change my Avatar until 12-31-07 to the Sux logo and my location to "New York Sucks", if the Sux lose whomever takes the bet will change their Avatar to a Yankees logo and their location to "Boston Sucks"
Anyone willing to put their pride where their mouth is?
One rule, if we both make the playoffs and get knocked out in the first round the bet is off.
I am making this bet because we all know I am a bandwagon fan. I mean when we were 14.5 games back I was rooting for the NY Muts
Still plenty of time to jump on the PATRIOTS bandwagon. . .





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Old 12-25-2007, 10:00 AM   #2504
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Anyone headed South to catch a Spring Training game?
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Old 12-25-2007, 07:21 PM   #2505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CageFreeGuzziman
Still plenty of time to jump on the PATRIOTS bandwagon. . .
.
Not really much of a football fan, though I do root for the Steelers. Honestly unless the Steelers meet the Pats in the AFC championship game I am rooting for them to go undefeated.
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