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Old 04-06-2008, 03:03 PM   #31
clintnz
Trans-Global Chook Chaser
 
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Joined: May 2004
Location: Rotoiti, New Zealand
Oddometer: 3,296
Had a go at fixing mine last week. My symptoms were a little different in that the starter had sounded like it was struggling a bit for a while, like it was low on volts, but the battery had plenty of juice & the connections to the starter looked good. Then it started just whizzing when the button was pushed & not turning over the motor at all. I got the NZ$9 SKF seal as above & took it apart.

The 3-arm flywheel puller we had did not even look like shifting the flywheel, even with a few good whacks. The local KTM dealer didn't have the right flywheel puller but there was one in the country so $49 & a day later I was the proud owner of the genuine factory service tool which did pop it off nicely.

The spring did indeed look buggered, everything else looked OK so I put it back together with the new spring which seemed to fit well.

Once the rest of the bike was back together I tried the starter & it worked, but it still sounded like it was struggling, & after about 6 starts went back to just whizzing & not working at all

I don't really mind that the cheap fix didn't work, it was worth a shot, but now I'm not sure if I need a whole new sprag clutch assembly, if the inner or outer hubs it engages on are worn, or if the starter motor or solenoid are worn out & the starter not spinning quickly enough is messing up the sprag clutch somehow???

In the meantime my kick-starting technique will no doubt continue to improve

Cheers
Clint
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:45 PM   #32
warewolf
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I'm all ears on this one.

The starter clutch on mine sometimes doesn't engage cleanly. Now a couple of times I've noticed it doesn't disengage cleanly. It takes a lot more effort to kick it when you are spinning the starter motor too!

Normally for the first start of the day I kick it, both to ease the load on the starter motor and to keep my leg in practice. Sometimes I have to resort to the electric leg when I don't get it right and can't be bothered faffing with it any longer.
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:04 AM   #33
DC950
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Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Memphis, Motorcycle Purgatory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf
I'm all ears on this one.

The starter clutch on mine sometimes doesn't engage cleanly. Now a couple of times I've noticed it doesn't disengage cleanly. It takes a lot more effort to kick it when you are spinning the starter motor too!

Normally for the first start of the day I kick it, both to ease the load on the starter motor and to keep my leg in practice. Sometimes I have to resort to the electric leg when I don't get it right and can't be bothered faffing with it any longer.
have you been riding my bike? This problem is exactly what I have and your technique is mine!
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Old 04-07-2008, 04:53 PM   #34
rapiti
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I bit the bullet on a new sprague clutch, and it works perfectly.

Now that you have the tool, it will be a piece of cake should you choose that route.

Good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz
Had a go at fixing mine last week. My symptoms were a little different in that the starter had sounded like it was struggling a bit for a while, like it was low on volts, but the battery had plenty of juice & the connections to the starter looked good. Then it started just whizzing when the button was pushed & not turning over the motor at all. I got the NZ$9 SKF seal as above & took it apart.

The 3-arm flywheel puller we had did not even look like shifting the flywheel, even with a few good whacks. The local KTM dealer didn't have the right flywheel puller but there was one in the country so $49 & a day later I was the proud owner of the genuine factory service tool which did pop it off nicely.

The spring did indeed look buggered, everything else looked OK so I put it back together with the new spring which seemed to fit well.

Once the rest of the bike was back together I tried the starter & it worked, but it still sounded like it was struggling, & after about 6 starts went back to just whizzing & not working at all

I don't really mind that the cheap fix didn't work, it was worth a shot, but now I'm not sure if I need a whole new sprag clutch assembly, if the inner or outer hubs it engages on are worn, or if the starter motor or solenoid are worn out & the starter not spinning quickly enough is messing up the sprag clutch somehow???

In the meantime my kick-starting technique will no doubt continue to improve

Cheers
Clint
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:14 PM   #35
TomW
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf
I'm all ears on this one.

The starter clutch on mine sometimes doesn't engage cleanly. Now a couple of times I've noticed it doesn't disengage cleanly. It takes a lot more effort to kick it when you are spinning the starter motor too!

Normally for the first start of the day I kick it, both to ease the load on the starter motor and to keep my leg in practice. Sometimes I have to resort to the electric leg when I don't get it right and can't be bothered faffing with it any longer.
Great thread. Same problem here. Guess I'll start looking for parts and pullers. I need to read the kick starting thread. (Backfire nearly took my foot off the other day.)

Cheers.
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Old 04-07-2008, 06:46 PM   #36
clintnz
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Joined: May 2004
Location: Rotoiti, New Zealand
Oddometer: 3,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf
I'm all ears on this one.

The starter clutch on mine sometimes doesn't engage cleanly. Now a couple of times I've noticed it doesn't disengage cleanly. It takes a lot more effort .
Yep, mine did that a bit in the months preceding failure too. If I was you I'd drop in a new spring now.

I've just been talking to the mechanic at the local shop, he said that the inner & outer surfaces that the sprag clutch engages on must be super smooth for them to work. The outer hub that bolts to the flywheel was pretty smooth in mine IIRC, but I think the inner hub on the gear may have been a little rough - the clutch pawls may have been dragging on it, hence the slow turnover when starting.

Given that gear isn't real cheap & is probably 4 weeks away ex-Austria I might try pulling it out & giving it a polish up on the lathe, then reinstall with another $9 seal spring & see if that works. If it doesn't I'll bite the bullet & buy a new gear & sprag clutch.

Cheers
Clint
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The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:32 AM   #37
losiu OP
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Location: POLAND
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
(Backfire nearly took my foot off the other day.)

Cheers.
I've heard stories of broken legs or people flying over the bars (no idea if they're true but...)
I have one tiny suggestion when kick-starting the beast:
NEVER open the throttle. It'll rip your leg out of your butt.

Give it a little bit of choke if it's cold and forget the throttle completely. When warm, do nothing but give it a decent kick. It'll never kick you back this way :)

Opening the throttle is like giving it the permission to slap you

L.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:45 AM   #38
warewolf
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Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC950
have you been riding my bike?
No-o-o-ooo? Why do you ask? Tyres looking a little more worn? Extra mileage on the clock? OK, I admit it, I've been sneaking over there when you are not looking and taking it for a hoon!
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:46 AM   #39
warewolf
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Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz
Yep, mine did that a bit in the months preceding failure too. If I was you I'd drop in a new spring now.
Hmm, know anywhere I can get a flywheel puller cheap?
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:57 AM   #40
warewolf
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Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losiu
I have one tiny suggestion when kick-starting the beast:
NEVER open the throttle. It'll rip your leg out of your butt.
Dunno that I'd agree with that. Seems to me that it will only kick back if you don't kick it all the way through, or you let it part-way up from the bottom before it fires up properly. If the kick start is all the way down, it is disengaged and won't kick back. Be timid with it and it will bitch-slap you. (I often start mine with a bit of throttle added.)

Apart from reading the thread, the biggest suggestion I can offer is that it is speed at the bottom of the kick what you are after. Start slow, build up speed as you kick it through. Trying to begin the kick at a million miles an hour doesn't work so well. It leaves you prone to not having enough speed & momentum at the bottom of the stroke, as well as not being so well balanced and in control, both of which also expose you to not finishing the stroke with the lever fully down and disengaged - hence kick-back. I've only got 75kg to throw at the problem, technique is everything. I can jump up and down on the lever at compression and it won't move. Now with practice I can start it per the manual using the right leg while standing on the left side of the bike, or using the left leg while stradding the bike - except when someone is watching!
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:38 AM   #41
meat popsicle
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Location: Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf
... OK, I admit it, I've been sneaking over there when you are not looking and taking it for a hoon!
Define "hoon" for us northerners please

PS - I agree with you on the kick starting biz. What you posted agrees with what creeper posted in my kick starting the beast thread:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...07&postcount=2
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:21 AM   #42
rob748
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starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz
Had a go at fixing mine last week. My symptoms were a little different in that the starter had sounded like it was struggling a bit for a while, like it was low on volts, but the battery had plenty of juice & the connections to the starter looked good. Then it started just whizzing when the button was pushed & not turning over the motor at all.
mine has been doing the same for the last couple months ( 05 640 20000miles) l have a new cog and clutch that l ordered a while ago but haven't got the courage to try it fix it yet, but after seeing this l might give it ago, l can kick it over when l'm some where easy but when l 'm half way up a muddy hill it is ncie to have the magic button.

Anybody want to let me borrow/buy a KTM puller ? we could do a buy it and sale it to the next ADV person deal ????
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:04 PM   #43
clintnz
Trans-Global Chook Chaser
 
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Joined: May 2004
Location: Rotoiti, New Zealand
Oddometer: 3,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf
Hmm, know anywhere I can get a flywheel puller cheap?
I could hire ya one for 50 bucks

Actually I could bring it down to the CCA & lend it to you in return for a beer & assistance in kicking Oscar in the nuts & swiping the keys to the 690 Enduro

I'm not going to have time to mess with the starter again before then however so I'd want it posted back reasonably quick so I can have another go at it.

Cheers
Clint
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The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:19 PM   #44
warewolf
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Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Define "hoon" for us northerners please
Appears the term is unique to Australia & New Zealand. Means "lout, hoodlum" according to one source. Snippet from the Wikipedia article, not the best but you get the gist:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The origin of its current usage is currently unknown but is widely believed to be a shortened form of "hooligan" [2]. In more recent times it has been used to describe any young male or female who drives in a manner which is anti-social towards the standards of modern day society. Generally, a hoon is any person who drives any vehicle dangerously and/or fast.
In other words, to go for a hoon means to take it for a thrash, preferably to bring it back with the discs blue & smoking, no rubber on the rear tyre and scrapes on the footpegs, stands, exhaust and fairing lowers. Say to the owner who's been hearing the exhaust wail echo off the surrounding countryside amid valve-bounce that "Yeah, goes orright mate, but a bit gutless in the top end."

When I was at uni there was a fellah in the club who'd do that at rallies, in the evening he'd cruise the parked up bikes for tasty machinery with the keys left in them, then help himself to a test ride as described above. Failing that he'd blag a ride from some unsuspecting friendly. Very amusing when it's not your bike.
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:21 PM   #45
warewolf
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Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz
Actually I could bring it down to the CCA & lend it to you in return for a beer & assistance in kicking Oscar in the nuts & swiping the keys to the 690 Enduro
Might be a plan. Kicking Oscar in the nuts I mean.

If I get hold of the seal by then I can bring it along, maybe Sunday morning we can have a go at swapping it in.
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Colin
KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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