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Old 07-27-2011, 11:56 AM   #4036
tbolt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailrider200 View Post
is 250 or 500 miles that good insurance? do u know something that the engineers at Suzuki don't know when they list a 3k mile oil change with their oil?
If I waited 3k between oil changes I'd have run my crankcase bone dry.

I'm no engineer, but I agree with Klay. I keep an eye on the oil level often. Top off if needed, and do a full change after a hard ride. $3.50 for a quart of oil's a hell of a lot cheaper than a new motor.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:00 PM   #4037
Klay
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Originally Posted by Trailrider200 View Post
is 250 or 500 miles that good insurance? do u know something that the engineers at Suzuki don't know when they list a 3k mile oil change with their oil?
Yes. They have no idea how much I wring the living daylights out of that thing. Plus I don't use any type of synthetic oil.

But I don't change at 250 0r 500 unless I've really been through some dust or mud. It's more usually something like 1,000 or 1,500 miles.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:41 PM   #4038
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Originally Posted by acif View Post
a worn top end (camshaft, rockers, the "bearing like" surfaces when the camshaft sits, etc) like that are PRETTY COMMON in the following models that uses a variation of the same motor: DR200, DR125, GN125, GS125, EN125, etc.

it occurs mainly in abused bikes that are:
1) reveed up when started (i have installed an oil pressure gauge, and in my DR, at 25 celsius, the oil pressure builds up only after 4 or 5 seconds after the engine starts).
2) used without oil or with the oil level below minimun. japanese blogs encourages the verification of the oil level specially if you travel at highway speeds, or if your engine has lots of kilometers/ miles and burns oil. = KEEP AN EYE ON THE OIL LEVEL CONSTANTLY.

I was pretty sure the issue was due to oil starvation, since we picked the bike up from an MSF course, i'm sure they treated their bikes like shit, until we got it home to take care of it.

After a rebuild of the top end of the motor, believe me, I've been keeping an eye on the oil level daily. Bike doesn't smoke, but it makes the same metal-on-metal tapping for about a second or two when first started up then quiets down as oil gets to the top of the motor.

I'll assume this is normal? Don't want to flood the engine with oil either, but I figure I'll try and keep the oil in the sight glass just a smidge above the Full line.


Thanks for the replies - confirms what we suspected all along.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:08 PM   #4039
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3,000 miles between oil changes ... mine is a 1997 and I just hit 10,000 miles ... 2,000 more miles and she'll be ready for her 4th oil change in 14 years.

Ya right - To each his own, but I change mine on or about January 1, April 1, July 1 and September 1 and she is purring like a happy kitten. I also change both o-rings and filter every time.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:15 AM   #4040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbolt View Post
If I waited 3k between oil changes I'd have run my crankcase bone dry.

I'm no engineer, but I agree with Klay. I keep an eye on the oil level often. Top off if needed, and do a full change after a hard ride. $3.50 for a quart of oil's a hell of a lot cheaper than a new motor.

if u read your maunal it states to always check the level and add as needed, that doesn't mean change the oil and filter.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:32 AM   #4041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klay View Post
Yes. They have no idea how much I wring the living daylights out of that thing. Plus I don't use any type of synthetic oil.

But I don't change at 250 0r 500 unless I've really been through some dust or mud. It's more usually something like 1,000 or 1,500 miles.

the engineers didn't think of that? they didn't do dyno work which can be worst then what u are doing? don't u know the engineers do failure and longivity tests? they don't use syn either, most manufacters use their own 10w30 per SAE test to develop their engines.
unless u do an used oil analysis at least once, u are just wasting your time, money and oil. A UOA will prove that u are changing too soon. www.bobistheoilguy.com what is the cost of oil nowadays compared to 5 yrs ago? millions more like u due to waste and changing the oil too soon are part of the reason for high oil barrel prices.
if u have a poor air filtration system, dust and mud do not enter the crankcase, unless u have a special mod to the engine. I guess the engineers didn't think of dust, mud, or deep water either when they were developing a dual sport bike.
and all oil today is much, much better than when this bike/engine were developed. run 15w40 or 5w40 and the engine will last a long time with 3k mile oil changes as the engineers state.
Enjoy!
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"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:29 AM   #4042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHO_GuN View Post
3,000 miles between oil changes ... mine is a 1997 and I just hit 10,000 miles ... 2,000 more miles and she'll be ready for her 4th oil change in 14 years.

Ya right - To each his own, but I change mine on or about January 1, April 1, July 1 and September 1 and she is purring like a happy kitten. I also change both o-rings and filter every time.
You'd still be changing the oil once a year so you would have done 14 oil changes. That's what I have been doing on our DRs. I change the oil in the fall when I put them away for the winter but that's it. We haven't been putting 5,000kms on the DRs. I also run Amsoil full synthetic which recommends extended drain intervals.

We are riding the DRs more this summer and I did change the oil after a 4 day dual sport ride that was extremely dusty. So I may be doing more than my annual oil change, but that's still following the manufacturers drain recommendations for "extreme" service. We went on another 4 day dual sport ride a few weeks ago and I won't be changing the oil because we were in the mountains and mostly rocky terrain so very little dust and I see no reason that would accelerate the need to change the oil sooner.

We're planning on keeping these DRs "forever", you'll have to pry Jodie's DR200 from her cold dead fingers. So we'll see if we run into any oil related issues as the miles pile up. I suspect we won't.

DRs doing what DRs do best...
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:22 AM   #4043
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Nice pic BROSS. I'm with the "cheap insurance" crowd with the oil changes. 1,000 - 1,200 miles usually. I may go 2,000 - 3,000 on my Tiger- but it's water cooled and stays on the pavement mostly. KLR falls into the 1,200 mile change, and I plan to do the same with the Mrs. DR. I just had it's 600 mile service done at the dealer on Tuesday, and plan on that being the last time it sees the dealer for anything. I haven't been able to even sneak in a ride on the DR- I was thinking of doing it yesterday or today as I'm off work this week- but she's riding it to work every day.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:59 AM   #4044
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Originally Posted by Trailrider200 View Post
The three stock holes in the airbox provide more open area than the carb throat Dia, there is no advantage to putting holes in the airbox.
the oem EPA muffler is the choke point as is the metal EPA noise screen inside of the foam filter.

drill out the epa plate in the muffler, remove the air filter metal screen. then open up the idle mixture scew to 3 1/2 turns and change the main jet or drill it to MJ 131 (1.5 mm drill bit). clean up the welds in the ID of the head pipe, ceramic coat the head pipe and the muffler.
Uh, think I might have to go ahead and disagree with that, uh, yeah...

Removing the airbox lid definitely made my bike run lean, which was corrected by moving to a larger main jet, and richer needle. It got more air, so needed more gas.

And drilling jets is NOT a good idea, because you can't control the surface finish, and jets are calibrated by flow, NOT size. Of course, modern jet manufacturing procedures DO control the surface, so they are repeatable enough that it's not necessary to check each one's flow...

Lastly, take a tip from the likes of Jesse at Kientech, who has probably done more DR tuning than anyone else: toss the airbox lid, and re-jet. Of course, at 5200 feet, removing the lid might be enough by itself...

And add a bit of waterproof pre-filter to the modified lid, to protect from rain, if that's a problem where you are.

Just my $0.02.
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:10 AM   #4045
tbolt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sateev View Post
Lastly, take a tip from the likes of Jesse at Kientech, who has probably done more DR tuning than anyone else: toss the airbox lid, and re-jet. Of course, at 5200 feet, removing the lid might be enough by itself...
Is Jesse an "engineer"? If not, I doubt Trailrider is interested in what he has to say.

"The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry." -- Dawkins
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:17 AM   #4046
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Originally Posted by tbolt View Post
Is Jesse an "engineer"? If not, I doubt Trailrider is interested in what he has to say.

"The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry." -- Dawkins
Yeah...well, you know. Them what can, do. And them what caint, teach (or post on forums).

Wait, *I'm* posting on a forum...I'm sooo confused.
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:26 PM   #4047
bross
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Nice pic BROSS.
Thanks, it should be, it's from your side of the border. We spent a couple days exploring around Lake Chelan, beautiful country.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:50 PM   #4048
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Originally Posted by Sateev View Post
Uh, think I might have to go ahead and disagree with that, uh, yeah...

Removing the airbox lid definitely made my bike run lean, which was corrected by moving to a larger main jet, and richer needle. It got more air, so needed more gas.

And drilling jets is NOT a good idea, because you can't control the surface finish, and jets are calibrated by flow, NOT size. Of course, modern jet manufacturing procedures DO control the surface, so they are repeatable enough that it's not necessary to check each one's flow...

Lastly, take a tip from the likes of Jesse at Kientech, who has probably done more DR tuning than anyone else: toss the airbox lid, and re-jet. Of course, at 5200 feet, removing the lid might be enough by itself...

And add a bit of waterproof pre-filter to the modified lid, to protect from rain, if that's a problem where you are.

Just my $0.02.
removing the airbox lid changed the helmholtz resonator effect of the airbox. to compensate u have to use a larger mj. same thing happens when POD filters are installed.
http://www.thunderproducts.com/AirboxesDynotech.htm
http://www.saltmine.org.uk/randy/airboxdesign.html
buy having too big an opening the carb has a harder time drawing fuel up the mj/needle well due to pressure differentials. using a bigger mj conpensates for this.So it got lean from less fuel not more air. This is what most don't understand. So in actuality nothing for performace actually was accomplished except your smaller wallet. now if the airbox opening is actually smaller then the carb bore, then the carb is air restricted and opening the airbox will help. I'm sure jesse knows this, but he can't sell product to people who know how a carb and its airbox works. muffler mod is worth it and would require a larger mainjet. He only goes up one size on the pilot jet. The mixture screw can be opened up to 4 1/2 turns before a next size PJ is required. notice the larger PJ that is used yet the idle mixture screw position is the same as OEM PJ.
my whole point is the stock airbox with the stock openings flow enough air for the carb. The metal screen inside of the foam airfilter is the restriction. A paper filter has lower restriction than a foam filter of the same size. A foam filter has to be much larger to flow the same as a paper filter. the height of a filter effects flow more then the dia. of the filter.
excellent write up on cv carbs
http://www.drpiston.com/Cvcarbs.html
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1981 CB900C, 1998 GL1500C Valkyrie
2007 DR200

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under" Ronald Reagan

Trailrider200 screwed with this post 08-31-2011 at 06:10 PM
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:08 PM   #4049
Klay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailrider200 View Post
the engineers didn't think of that? they didn't do dyno work which can be worst then what u are doing? don't u know the engineers do failure and longivity tests? they don't use syn either, most manufacters use their own 10w30 per SAE test to develop their engines.
unless u do an used oil analysis at least once, u are just wasting your time, money and oil. A UOA will prove that u are changing too soon. www.bobistheoilguy.com what is the cost of oil nowadays compared to 5 yrs ago? millions more like u due to waste and changing the oil too soon are part of the reason for high oil barrel prices.
if u have a poor air filtration system, dust and mud do not enter the crankcase, unless u have a special mod to the engine. I guess the engineers didn't think of dust, mud, or deep water either when they were developing a dual sport bike.
and all oil today is much, much better than when this bike/engine were developed. run 15w40 or 5w40 and the engine will last a long time with 3k mile oil changes as the engineers state.
Enjoy!
Nope, I'm going to change it at much shorter intervals.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:20 PM   #4050
Klay
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Originally Posted by tbolt View Post
$3.50 for a quart of oil's a hell of a lot cheaper than a new motor.
I pay about $2.79 a quart. No reason not to change it frequently. That ends up being twice a year or so. The 200 really gets revved a lot.
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