Cleveland National Forest Report

[notmybikemodelname]

That's what I've been saying for over a year. It's all about money.

Now go ride.

[browneye]

I will preface this by stating I have nothing against forest managers, they're generally not the problem. It's further up the chain wherein all the problems stem from. I have worked as a volunteer for patrols as well as trail maintenance.

But, it's always blah, blah, blah, we just can't get to it. Bikes could still manage with or without the wash-out. But for liability reasons they just close it and leave it closed. It all could be opened for single track use but then some idiot would go off an embankment and LE couldn't get in there to rescue them.

The best description of land management I've heard lately was that if the Grand Canyon was in California it would have a chain-link fence all the way around it with a million warning signs. Or it would just be closed. I can hear it now..."It's just too dangerous to let the public in there."

[herrhelmet]

Originally Posted by browneye

I will preface this by stating I have nothing against forest managers, they're generally not the problem. It's further up the chain wherein all the problems stem from. I have worked as a volunteer for patrols as well as trail maintenance.

But, it's always blah, blah, blah, we just can't get to it. Bikes could still manage with or without the wash-out. But for liability reasons they just close it and leave it closed. It all could be opened for single track use but then some idiot would go off an embankment and LE couldn't get in there to rescue them.

The best description of land management I've heard lately was that if the Grand Canyon was in California it would have a chain-link fence all the way around it with a million warning signs. Or it would just be closed. I can hear it now..."It's just too dangerous to let the public in there."

CNF Cleveland NATIONAL Forest. Federal. It's a fire road not a single track for bikes.

[browneye]

Originally Posted by herrhelmet

CNF Cleveland NATIONAL Forest. Federal. It's a fire road not a single track for bikes.

Err...that's not what I said. I know what it is. I thought I was clear about a motorcycle being able to navigate a fire road with a washout even if a 4 wheeled vehicle could not.

And what does 'NATIONAL' forest have to do with it? I don't find any difference in forest/land management whether it be federal/national, BLM, or state/local. Do you?

[herrhelmet]

Originally Posted by browneye

Err...that's not what I said. I know what it is. I thought I was clear about a motorcycle being able to navigate a fire road with a washout even if a 4 wheeled vehicle could not.

And what does 'NATIONAL' forest have to do with it? I don't find any difference in forest/land management whether it be federal/national, BLM, or state/local. Do you?

I just say it doesn't matter if a motorcycle can navigate it or not. The only difference between State/local or Federal is the number of 0's in there negative balance sheets.


You haven't said anything that hasn't been posted 1,000x

[browneye]

Originally Posted by herrhelmet

I just say it doesn't matter if a motorcycle can navigate it or not. The only difference between State/local or Federal is the number of 0's in there negative balance sheets.


You haven't said anything that hasn't been posted 1,000x

I'm sorry, it just didn't occur to me that someone may have said something similar some dozens or hundreds of pages back. So are you inferring that I shouldn't post on the subject? Or just that it wasn't of sufficient value to warrant saying it?

I expressed an opinion; I'm surmising from your reply that shouldn't be done or it is without merit.

[ffr2370]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I was on the ride and listened to the ranger. What I got from it was one guy with a small tractor has to maintain all the roads in this forest. This ranger works 12 hours a day and gets paid for 8. This guy loves the forest and wants to keep it open for us and for him to use. There is no plan to keep it closed for any other reasons then to save the road during rain, keep vehicles from going over the side even on small washouts which they then have to use limited resources to rescue, right after fires. Damaging gate and fences only delay the road openings because they then have to go fix them which costs more money that they don't have. Bikes are not the real problem but we are all lumped together as motorized forest users.
Think what you want but I believed he told it as it is and I really appreciated him taking his time to let us know what is really happening.
Oh and it was Sunday and he was on his way to work on the road. He said that there were 2 washouts past the peak before Indian truck trail and that unless he gets called away by his fire dutys that he thinks it should not too much longer and they will be fixed. Maybe that is what I wanted to hear but I think thats what the said about the road.

I talked to a ranger a few weeks ago and what he told me was similar, that repairs to main divide between the peek and Blue Jay CG could be done soon, he said they needed to take a scraper through (scraper = road grader?).

The CNF standard for what they consider vehicle safe road conditions seems to be quite a bit higher than SBNF. I guess with all the yahoos screwing around on the roads the few rangers must briethe a sigh of releif when they can close the gates....if I were in there shoes I probably wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to open them either. But as with most things run by the government they can be quite indifferent to who their customers are, they arent too worreid about what the taxpayers think.

[notmybikemodelname]

Originally Posted by browneye

I'm sorry, it just didn't occur to me that someone may have said something similar some dozens or hundreds of pages back. So are you inferring that I shouldn't post on the subject? Or just that it wasn't of sufficient value to warrant saying it?

I expressed an opinion; I'm surmising from your reply that shouldn't be done or it is without merit.

Let me pipe in here. Just because a motorcycle can make it somewhere a truck can't doesn't mean they will, or should open the trail. I've seen plenty of riders barely able to get their kickstands up, let alone ride around, over or through a washout. This is a liability issue........the end.

If you're saying this is an issue of who or what can make it around the washout, then let's take it one step further and ask "who" is capable of riding a motorcycle around it and who is not? The forest service is not even capable of getting the trail fixed at any level, what makes you think they're capable of giving a test at the trailhead to see who has the skills to get around the washouts without injuring themselves.

Saddleback is a far cry from a good or even decent place to ride. Honestly, I use it as an excuse to go drinking at HK.

If I'm going to "ride", then I go to the mountains or desert.

[browneye]

OMG. You guys took this way out of context.
I think the best explanation was from FFR2370 - the standard is different up there.

I'm of the old school...if it's there I want to ride through it.

Oh, and I'm not expecting anything to change, regardless of what I think or say.

I simply took exception to 'it's already been posted a 1000 x's.' Last I checked this forum is open for the expression of an opinion. That's all.

Don't be such hardasses - I'm not your enemy!

[pterry]

Originally Posted by notmybikemodelname

Let me pipe in here. Just because a motorcycle can make it somewhere a truck can't doesn't mean they will, or should open the trail. I've seen plenty of riders barely able to get their kickstands up, let alone ride around, over or through a washout. This is a liability issue........the end.

Are saying something about my riding skills?

I blame it on beer!

[notmybikemodelname]

Originally Posted by pterry

Are saying something about my riding skills?

I blame it on beer!

At least i didn't actually put your name in.

[tbarstow]

Originally Posted by pterry

Are saying something about my riding skills?

Yes I am. When the orange 450 goes up the mountain slower than the 1150, the orange rider should be shunned here.

But you do have me beat on the drinking skills.

[notmybikemodelname]

Originally Posted by tbarstow

Yes I am. When the orange 450 goes up the mountain slower than the 1150, the orange rider should be shunned here.

But you do have me beat on the drinking skills.

My five year old has you beat there....................................

[pterry]

Originally Posted by tbarstow

Yes I am. When the orange 450 goes up the mountain slower than the 1150, the orange rider should be shunned here.

But you do have me beat on the drinking skills.

Hey you're in Vegas now. You have no shunning privaleges in OC!

But you do ride that 1150 pretty fast!

[Over the bars]

From: "Clarke, Debra" <drclarke@fs.fed.us>

Date: August 26, 2011 3:40:54 PM PDT

Subject: North Main Divide Road



North Main was reopened today!
The section from Bedford/Silverado Motorway to Beeks remains closed as the 24 foot section of missing road still has not been repaired.
You can drive from Maple Springs in Silverado to Ortega Highway again.
Debra