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Old 11-18-2012, 05:54 PM   #1
Merlin III OP
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Unscrewing a very stuburn nut on a 1150GS

I am trying to install a set of Rox risers. It should be an easy job even for a non-wrencher like myself. I am trying to get the top fork nuts off so I can re-route the cables behind the forks. I have tried everything to get them off including a breaker bar and liberal use of Kroil to no avail. Someone mentioned that the nut-stud probably had loctite applied to it. They recommended heating up the area with a hair dryer. I am just wondering if that would be hot enough? Is there a recommended temperature in which loctite becomes more plastic? What other means are there to heat up the stud without doing damage to the finish of the bike? Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:09 PM   #2
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A hair dryer won't get hot enough, and a torch will probably scorch something. I'd use a heat gun.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin III View Post
I am trying to install a set of Rox risers. It should be an easy job even for a non-wrencher like myself. I am trying to get the top fork nuts off so I can re-route the cables behind the forks. I have tried everything to get them off including a breaker bar and liberal use of Kroil to no avail. Someone mentioned that the nut-stud probably had loctite applied to it. They recommended heating up the area with a hair dryer. I am just wondering if that would be hot enough? Is there a recommended temperature in which loctite becomes more plastic? What other means are there to heat up the stud without doing damage to the finish of the bike? Thanks.
I use a propane torch (pencil flame) carefully aimed on low flame setting, heating the nut and stud directly.
It helps to cut a short piece of pipe to slide over and protect surrounding area. Heat the nut until spit will boil on it.
Apply wrench immediately and keep a steady even pressure on it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:53 PM   #4
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You are holding 'against' underneath correct? 22mm open ender.

It may take two people. One to hold the 22mm underneath and one to do the top nut inside the triple tree.

I usually find a good clout with a hammer works wonders.

You could hold against with the top nut and twist the one under the clamp.

Those inside nuts are known for rounding out, be careful.

Have you held against and hit it with an impact wrench? or just put a wrench on the inside nut and hit the top of nut with a small bar and hammer as you twist whilst holding against underneath.

It's a tricky job to do on your own. Many people have rounded out those nuts, I like a six point socket, then use a breaker bar without ratchet so I can clout the top of the angle on breaker bar with a hammer as I twist.

You did soak them in penetrating oil over night?

Where they musty and corroded up? They often are.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TUCKERS View Post
You are holding 'against' underneath correct? 22mm open ender.

It may take two people. One to hold the 22mm underneath and one to do the top nut inside the triple tree.

I usually find a good clout with a hammer works wonders.

You could hold against with the top nut and twist the one under the clamp.

Those inside nuts are known for rounding out, be careful.

Have you held against and hit it with an impact wrench? or just put a wrench on the inside nut and hit the top of nut with a small bar and hammer as you twist whilst holding against underneath.

It's a tricky job to do on your own. Many people have rounded out those nuts, I like a six point socket, then use a breaker bar without ratchet so I can clout the top of the angle on breaker bar with a hammer as I twist.

You did soak them in penetrating oil over night?

Where they musty and corroded up? They often are.
Yea, I have done all that except using two men. Plus I also heated it up. Research has fairly conclusively led me to believe that the nuts on a 2001 1150GS have a very high strength Loctite on it. I am taking the bike to the dealer to see what they can do since they have all the tools and experience. If I break the studs, replacement parts are 110 each plus labor to replace the parts.

So much for a quick riser install. Risers were 85 dollars, special tools plus Aroil were a about 60 dollars, and then there is the cost at the dealer to install them (if they can). So I am estimating the total cost of about 300 dollars. If it fixes that pain between my shoulder blades, it will be worth it. Thanks everyone for all the help.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin III View Post
Yea, I have done all that except using two men. Plus I also heated it up. Research has fairly conclusively led me to believe that the nuts on a 2001 1150GS have a very high strength Loctite on it. I am taking the bike to the dealer to see what they can do since they have all the tools and experience. If I break the studs, replacement parts are 110 each plus labor to replace the parts.

So much for a quick riser install. Risers were 85 dollars, special tools plus Aroil were a about 60 dollars, and then there is the cost at the dealer to install them (if they can). So I am estimating the total cost of about 300 dollars. If it fixes that pain between my shoulder blades, it will be worth it. Thanks everyone for all the help.
A heat gun at Harbor Freight will set you back $10. It's the one I've used for 4 years. It got hot enough to soften the red Loctite BMW liberally applied to the pivot bearings on the FD. I would wrap some foil around the areas that are sensitive to heat and have at it. For the record, it took a good 5-10 minutes to get the soften the thread lock on the pivots.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:41 AM   #7
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Wow, I have removed quite a few and not had any serious issues. Keep us posted as to the final outcome.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:59 AM   #8
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Yeah, I've done quite a few too. Year 2000 and 2001. Never really had a problem, but it is better with a six point socket as I've heard/known of people rounding these off. Don't recall any loctite and never put any on for re-assembly. Can be a bit tricky on your own unless you are quite dextrous. They do get corroded too. I always pack with grease now before I replace the plastic cap.
One brilliant idea is pour boiing water on there, clears the corrosion. 'Cept I don't understand why they simply won't come off anyway, usually a quick knock and jab loosens them up, they are crappy nuts though with that chamffered top..... I'll bet the dealers sell a few of those nuts!

So what is happening? Just won't move? Or spinning? Or rounded nuts? I can't imagine they are just 'stuck', usually if they are stuck you end up pulling the socket off and rounding the nut.

What 'special tools' are you using?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TUCKERS View Post
'Cept I don't understand why they simply won't come off anyway, usually a quick knock and jab loosens them up, they are crappy nuts though with that chamffered top..... I'll bet the dealers sell a few of those nuts!

So what is happening? Just won't move? Or spinning? Or rounded nuts? I can't imagine they are just 'stuck', usually if they are stuck you end up pulling the socket off and rounding the nut.
+1 for sure!
FYI
The stud going into the fork tube is red locktited and needs heat for sure (I have salvaged a few from bent forks-not in the dealer fiches as available). But the nuts have been a non issue.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:44 AM   #10
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broken parts

And if the dealer breaks it or strips it getting it apart, you will pay for the parts - "Well, sir, they sometimes break and that's not our fault, so you must pay..."
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:23 AM   #11
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I use a propane torch (pencil flame) carefully aimed on low flame setting, heating the nut and stud directly.
It helps to cut a short piece of pipe to slide over and protect surrounding area. Heat the nut until spit will boil on it.
Apply wrench immediately and keep a steady even pressure on it.

There's a rubber bush inserted in the top yolk under the nut.

Try using a six point socket, not a bi-hex. And i've never seen threadlock used on the fork tube top nuts.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:07 AM   #12
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There's a rubber bush inserted in the top yolk under the nut.

Try using a six point socket, not a bi-hex. And i've never seen threadlock used on the fork tube top nuts.
I am aware of that, you have to use a fine flame.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
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I am aware of that, you have to use a fine flame.
The heat transfers and melts the rubber, fine flame doesn't help. Go ahead. $120 just for the part if you F it up. AND THAT part is red Loctite to the fork leg...IF you can even find it.

Steptoe knows. It's his bread and butter.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:51 AM   #14
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After my last post and before calling the shop for an appointment, I tried it one more time. I put the pencil butane torch on the nut and bolt for a full timed 5 minutes and immediately tried to beak the hold and was successful.

Now my next question is about those black rubber washers. Did 5 minutes of the butane torch temperatures on the nut and bolt significantly decrease it's integrity? I guess it is always best to replace them when given an easy opportunity to do so since they most likely have nearly 12 years of wear on them. I guess I will Loctite them back although some say that their BMW didn't have it. As I mentioned, I don't have a lot of experience with this stuff. One thing I did learn is that if you see a smear of blue paint on the bolts on a stock BMW, it means that Loctite was used. In this case it is the German version of Loctite #2701. I will also see about getting higher quality nuts that won't round off as easily. By the way, thanks for all the help!
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Merlin III screwed with this post 11-22-2012 at 11:14 AM
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Merlin III View Post
After my last post and before calling the shop for an appointment, I tried it one more time. I put the pencil butane torch on the nut and bolt for a full timed 5 minutes and immediately tried to beak the hold and was successful.

Now my next question is about those black rubber washers. Did 5 minutes of the butane torch temperatures on the nut and bolt significantly decrease it's integrity? I guess it is always best to replace them when given an easy opportunity to do so since they most likely have nearly 12 years of wear on them. By the way, thanks for all the help!
Ha Ha I knew it! Good for you
Re: Seals
They can be carefully pried out and inspected.
If you can source separately (not shown as a seperate item on the Max fiche) great if not, I have a couple of good ones I am willing to part with.
PM if you want.
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