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Old 11-03-2014, 01:24 PM   #1
chambersc OP
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Pole Barn to clear up the garage

Its time to get crap out of my garage. I currently have right now in my two car garage a large rolling tool chest, a workbench, the wife's car, three motorcycles, an ATV, riding mower, push mower, various yard implements, etc. Its time to make some room.

So I've been scrounging up some materials and its time to start a 12x16 pole barn in the back yard with a 4 foot porch on one side. (Wife's addition for aesthetics) So the total footprint will be 16x16. Storage area 12x16.

Looking at setting posts this weekend and getting started. Anything you guys have learned in a similar project that I should take heed or avoid? Going to be a wood decked flooring. Its in an uneven corner of the yard so the pole barn works best for shoring that up and making it level, and it appears to be the best usage of my materials per dollar.

Going to build a standard gable roof with a tall peak. The plan is to put some loft storage in the last 4 feet ( x 12 feet) just for tupperware tubs, etc.

I have a couple of windows, a walk through door, insulation, and a decent amount of materials to get started already pre-scrounged including some creosote coated posts. Going to frame up the large door for a single overhead door, although for now I'm just going to build a couple of barn doors for it. Down the road as more funds come available I may have the overhead door guy come out and swap it for an overhead.

Plan to run some basic electrical in it, couple of outlets for battery tenders, etc and two overhead lights. I plan to insulate it and maybe install a little electric wall heater (bathroom type heater) so the cats have somewhere to get in and be warm in the winter. Found one on Amazon for $96 that looks good. Its a permanent install type, works on 110V and is pre-wired for a remote wall thermostat.

This is a storage shed, not my workshop. Once this crap is out of the way I will have a LOT more room to work on bikes in the garage again and I can start finally making some VFR progress.

So what say you? Anything you ran into doing the same that you wish you had known before you started? I have a buddy who owns a construction and remodeling business that owes me a couple of favors after a boat engine swap and a Shovelhead resurrection, so he's going to be keeping me on track building things as they should be. Lets just say I could make a living doing motorcycle repair and rebuilding but I'm not real sure I can say the same about my construction skills.
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:16 PM   #2
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Nice project -- it will be very useful! You mentioned insulation -- I can tell you that about the only way I've found to keep mice out is going to be use concrete around the perimeter. I ended up digging an 8" deep by 6" wide trench under my metal and then pouring concrete just up to the bottom of the metal - right to bottom. Before that, I couldn't keep the mice out. Don't know your climate, but in Iowa, your little heater idea would burn a lot of power and be on 24/7 from November to March. It would likely burn out. Best thing for the cats is just build them a small insulated box they can crawl in. They'll be fine. If you feel the need to provide heat for them, use one of the heated mats rather than an air heater.

I heat my 20' x 30' with electric baseboard heaters - and because the entire building is electric only, the electric co-op installed a heat meter, which means all my electric for heat is charged at 1/4 the rate of regular electric. Your utility may or may not have something similar.

If you are sheathing the inside, be sure and put blocking where you might want to add shelves or hang things from the wall.

You mentioned "shoring up" the corner of the yard with the building -- do mean to have dirt in contact with the building? If you have a hill to deal with, I would dig it back and create a level pad for the building, using a separate retaining wall of some kind to deal with the dirt. Dirt in contact with the building wall = not good - and many future problems.

Flooring -- be sure and account for the total height of your floor system when you are framing the doors. Not fun to end up with a floor too high or too low.

Good luck!

Dave
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:33 PM   #3
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Digging post holes sucks...
Measure and square everything up twice and brace well as wood moves. Pressure treated for bottom boards. Are you using metal siding?
I would make sure you have overhangs also all around.
If you think you need 4 outlets put double in, especially if you are covering the walls.
Don't know what else specifics you are looking for...
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:56 PM   #4
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Wind lift. The posts have to be deeper and more concrete than you would ever think, to stop it from blowing away in a storm. Wouldn't hurt to have a structural engineer review the plans.
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Old 11-03-2014, 06:21 PM   #5
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Ironically, the buddy of mine who is helping me happens to have a structural engineering degree from OSU. So hopefully we're set there. As far as shoring up, no dirt in contact with walls. Floor will be level and ride on the post as I understand it.

Outlets, yeah, I've been thinking about that. Probably just need to double what I think I need. Winters here arent too bad. Only a few really cold snaps. Currently they can get into the garage, which is well insulated through a cat door. No heat there either, just insulation. And they seem to do well. The wall heater may be overkill.

Siding I'm planning on wood with a metal roof.
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Old 11-04-2014, 02:22 AM   #6
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put roofing tar on the bottom of the post before you put them in the ground. put some stone in the bottom of the hole and fill with dirt.
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Old 11-04-2014, 03:19 AM   #7
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Pretreat the ground for termites, bottom of every hole. You can mail order termidor or the generic. Little bastards are everywhere. Also kills ants. Either that or make it all out of treated wood.

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Old 11-04-2014, 04:40 AM   #8
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You say, "creosote coated posts"? -meaning utility poles or are you meaning common "treated wood" as seen these days? Size of posts?
Posts need to be treated for ground contact is what matters. If they are in fact creosote, I would not waste money on termite goop. They don't like to eat treated wood of any kind far as I know? Carpenter bees do bore in salt treated wood but not in the ground of course.
Post #6 just touches the surface of the many possible considerations for placing a post in the ground for a "pole building"
Kind of a different approach as you state with a "decked floor" for a building. Sounds like a porch deck with walls & if no codes to complicate your idea should be a good way to build on a slope cheaply with little excavation.
For starters-Do you know how deep to place the poles? Your friend being an engr doesn't mean he knows how to be a carpenter Our three sons are all engrs & (as a carpenter type of guy) I can assure you they don't teach that stuff in that school.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:04 AM   #9
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Suggestions

If you are going to sheet the bldg w/nominal metallic bldg sheets, it is best to predrill the sheets about 4 at the top, gert/perlin and bottom. One side only will have stitch screw holes because it is a PITA trying to buck the roof sheet while drilling. For all these holes it is advisable to check out a metallic bldg for number and spacing of these holes. The first bldg we put together we didn't predrill and as I said it is a PITA. A friend had a pole type built where the
contractor used 4"x6" treated timbers on 10' centers w/2"x6" treated at the bottom and actually Sam requested all matl. treated which I think is over engineered. There are 2"x6" for girts and purlins, being 10' bays each had it's own truss which was also 2"x6" construction. Roof and walls are metallic w/12'eave height.
I know this is more than you will get into probably, but on your bldg you could go with 8' centers, not to fond of the creosote poles but through bolt will help. Don't forget the foam gasket at the eave to prevent rain from blowing in especially if the gutters get full.
Check w/Mueller bldgs for sheets screws if there is one near. I think the screw guns were 500 rpm or less, low rpm is necessary to prevent the point from burning up.
Good luck
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Old 11-04-2014, 06:17 AM   #10
chambersc OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
You say, "creosote coated posts"? -meaning utility poles or are you meaning common "treated wood" as seen these days? Size of posts?
Posts need to be treated for ground contact is what matters. If they are in fact creosote, I would not waste money on termite goop. They don't like to eat treated wood of any kind far as I know? Carpenter bees do bore in salt treated wood but not in the ground of course.
Post #6 just touches the surface of the many possible considerations for placing a post in the ground for a "pole building"
Kind of a different approach as you state with a "decked floor" for a building. Sounds like a porch deck with walls & if no codes to complicate your idea should be a good way to build on a slope cheaply with little excavation.
For starters-Do you know how deep to place the poles? Your friend being an engr doesn't mean he knows how to be a carpenter Our three sons are all engrs & (as a carpenter type of guy) I can assure you they don't teach that stuff in that school.
These are creosote coated 6x6 posts. Not just treated wood. I plan to auger the hole 3 feet deep although he and I haven't discussed that. And he is an engineer who walked away from engineering about 10 years ago and went out on his own as a construction guy for his own business doing remodel and new construction.
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Old 11-04-2014, 07:20 PM   #11
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Build it bigger than that-soon, your pole barn will be full, and your garage will be just as full as it is now.
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:20 AM   #12
chambersc OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep44 View Post
Build it bigger than that-soon, your pole barn will be full, and your garage will be just as full as it is now.
I agree and I would love to, but physical room back there is the restrictor. We started out just doing an 8x10 pre-built and I talked into building a 12x16 because that's what would fit between the fence and existing OLD trees that offer a lot of needed shade.
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Old 11-08-2014, 06:28 PM   #13
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Ground Broken

So changes were made and we're off to a good start. My engineer buddy nixed my pole barn for a traditional framed wall building. Set posts 36" in the ground (run wild for now) and will be framed up around it with 2x6's around the perimeter. Joists hung, floor decked, and then walls and roof framed on it. The posts in the ground still allow me to easily compensate for the slope in the yard but I'll have a more traditional build for the building.

Set posts today in concrete and waiting a week for them to set up while I travel to New Mexico next week for work. Next weekend I'll finish up the floor and we can start wall framing the weekend after.


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Old 11-15-2014, 05:11 PM   #14
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A little progress

Floor framed up before the impending snow storm in the morning.


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Old 11-16-2014, 09:23 AM   #15
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I would not heat the whole thing for cats...
I made a small insulated box for the garage kittys. Comfy blankets and a 25 watt elec bulb in a glass enclosed housing.... Very warm for them! And, that is in a heated (42 deg) garage but would work anyplace.
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