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Old 02-27-2012, 08:43 AM   #466
Taranis
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I should have been clearer. My last post was back on threaded fasteners, not gasket eliminators.

I do okay with ions and stuff, no worries on getting techy.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:45 PM   #467
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Dirty,

You guys really need to work on your retail distribution for consumers. Went to four stores looking for Loctite on the way home. Found the giant, expensive size Loctite that will become useless years before I could use it up at the industrial hardware place. Everywhere else had a wall of Permatex and no Loctite.

A normal person who doesn't exchange messages with some stranger named Dirty Sanchez will assume that if Permatex has p/n 51817 on their package, he could reasonably expect to use that product the same way he'd use Loctite 51817 and achieve substantially similar results. The Permatex is in his hand for $4.99, and he's on his way.

I'll be special-ordering it at the local Fastenal joint. Thankfully, I drive through the industrial base of the largest port on the west coast on my way to work and we have stores like that.

But for normal people, every bit of marketing Loctite does is just directly pumping sales for Permatex, because they have distribution. They are getting their product where it can be bought conveniently by normal people. And trust me, that's a huge part of the battle.

Oh, and if you could please, please, please offer the BA 2400C good-stuff nickel anti-seize in sizes for people who work on turbo cars and motorcycles, rather than maintaining entire nuke plants, that would be awesome, too.
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Taranis screwed with this post 06-09-2013 at 07:44 PM
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:45 PM   #468
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Years back Permatex began using the same part numbers Loctite uses for similarly performing Loctite products.

Permatex is NOT Loctite.

A less than honorable trick which wreaks havoc on unsuspecting purchasing agents.

We have patents, copyright protection, registered trademarks, logos, but no protection over part numbers.

After the Civil War the term Carpet Bagger was coined.

Still though, your best bet is to stay away from the retail auto parts places. Your best bet to find Loctite products is to seek out national bearing houses, and industrial supply folks like Motion Industries, Grainger, Applied Industrial Technologies, Hisco, Fastenal, or go to the Loctite website and find the local Authorized Distributor.

Dirty
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:06 AM   #469
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deleted - i'm not smart.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:45 AM   #470
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ok, maybe not so dumb.

a few questions:

248 versus 243 - does 248 have a limited lifespan in the container? - i.e. does it go bad/evaporate/dry up/loose strength overtime? it's anaerobic, so does the bottom of the stick harden/go bad overtime? it appears 248 has a slightly slower cure time - but both 243 and 248 on plain steel reach full strength in roughly 24 hours right?

why does loctite use red containers for 243? and permatex use blue containers for their high strength (both appear backwards)...? it would seem you could use red container for red, blue container for blue etc.

also is 242 available in a stick format?
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:33 AM   #471
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i just use the gasket eliminator for thread locking as well as sealing flanges. etc
it works extremely well for locking /sealing threads and is a paste which is a bonus
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:27 AM   #472
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248 Quickstix is good for 2 years from the mfg. date. All of the Loctite products will give you an expiration date printed somewhere on the label or container.

243 is the newest version of a blue medium strength threadlocker-only this is the only product in the world that works as advertised on as-received (lightly oily) nuts and bolts AND is primerless-meaning it'll work on all metals. Liquids are good for a year.

These products are anaerobic...not aerobic. They cure in the absence of air in contact with a metal.

Yes, full cure after 24 hours. Even superglues, aka cyanoacrylates don't develop a full cure until the 24 hour mark. In the case of cyanoacrylates, the molecular crosslinking is complete at the 24 hour mark.

Loctite's company Logo is Red, and all of our bottles of threadlocker are red. We do this so customers aren't confused by another company who uses all of our part numbers.

A little bit of unusual packaging trivia- all anaerobic threadlocker bottles are oxygen permeable. The product would cure if air couldn't get in and get out of the bottles. Sort of like drinking red wine out of a styrofoam cup. the wine leaches out from between the molded styrofoam pellets. The porosity of our plastic threadlocker bottles is tight enough so that it takes many years before the product leaches out of the container.

242 in liquid form performs very similarly to the 248 Quickstix.
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Originally Posted by stainlesscycle View Post
ok, maybe not so dumb.

a few questions:

248 versus 243 - does 248 have a limited lifespan in the container? - i.e. does it go bad/evaporate/dry up/loose strength overtime? it's anaerobic, so does the bottom of the stick harden/go bad overtime? it appears 248 has a slightly slower cure time - but both 243 and 248 on plain steel reach full strength in roughly 24 hours right?

why does loctite use red containers for 243? and permatex use blue containers for their high strength (both appear backwards)...? it would seem you could use red container for red, blue container for blue etc.

also is 242 available in a stick format?
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:35 PM   #473
dirty_sanchez
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Loctite Customer Training School Gonzales, LA

Team-
I'm hosting the Spring Edition of the Loctite Customer Training School next Tuesday, March 27th at Cabella's from 9A Sharp to Noon.

I realize folks read the best motorcycle site in all of interwebdom from all over the world, this event is going to be taking place in Gonzales, LA.

If you're involved in Engineering or Maintenance at any of the plants up and down the river and haven't participated in one of these events, you need to come. It's a worthwhile 3 hours....it's free, plus you'll get plenty of Loctite swag and a lunch out of the deal.

PM me ASAP, PDQ if you want to come to save your spot. I currently have 27 confirmed and can take a max of 40.
You've been invited to attend a no-cost 3-Hour LOCTITE Customer/Distributor Training School at Cabelas on Tuesday March 27th from 9A-Noon.

This is a Value-Added Service Program....Not just a seminar.

You'll gain working knowledge of faster, better, lower cost ways to bond, seal, fasten, gasket, rebuild and assemble parts RELIABLY in a proactive fashion.

Who Should Attend:
Maintenance Managers
Reliability Engineers
Maintenance Planners
Maintenance Superintendents
Maintenance Supervisors
New or Seasoned Industrial Sales Personnel

Lunch will be served.

We have about 13 seats left, so PM me with your regular Email address to reserve a place for you. If you can't attend, forward this Email invitation to a co-worker or a friend who might want to participate in a no-cost reliability workshop with a free lunch.

If you haven't already, give me a call so I can give Julie at Cabela's Grill a headcount for lunch.

By attending this three hour Loctite Workshop you'll gain hands-on practical knowledge to proactively address ways to improve reliability, machinery availability, and maintainability through the latest generation of:

Threadlockers
Threadsealants
Gasketing-Anaerobic and Silicone Review
Retaining Compounds for Bearing fits and Keyed Assy's.
Adhesives and Sealants
Anti-Wear Coatings for Centrifugal Pumps
Conveyor Belt and Floor/Concrete Repair Products
Anti-Weld Spatter Products
Noise Vibration Harshness Reducing Products
Metal Working Fluids.

With a number of hands-on exercises using a Loctite Toolbox loaded with products participants will learn how to save time by reducing routine maintenance tasks, reduce standard repair times, and reduce redundant repairs. We'll discuss ways to reduce energy costs, improve plant safety, and reduce fluid consumption.
We hope to see you there.
Thanks,
Dirty
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:40 AM   #474
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Hey Dirty, I have a 2010 1200 Multistrada. These bikes have a sump plate that Ducati calls for "Ducati 3 Bond" sealer as it doesn't have a gasket. Does Loctite have something similar?
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:51 AM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels View Post
Hey Dirty, I have a 2010 1200 Multistrada. These bikes have a sump plate that Ducati calls for "Ducati 3 Bond" sealer as it doesn't have a gasket. Does Loctite have something similar?
.

Nice bike- Mrs. Dirty's Nutty Uncle and great guy has that very bike of which I coveted at their house last Thanksgiving.

Yep, 518, 515, or 510....are the choices you should consider in that order. As I mentioned earlier in this and many other threads, all of that 3Bond, Yamabond, Hondabond, etc., etc., are all solvent based with other clay/elastomeric and other type of fillers. As soon as you squeeze any of this stuff out the race is on for reassembly. They begin to skin over and cure and you're rushed to get everything back together.

Work too slow, and the stuff skins over (you don't realize it) and you reassemble your parts. Your parts leak because the skinned over gasket mat'l didn't wet out the mating surface-promoting a good gasketed seal.

Thanks for asking. I've been using the Gasket Eliminators since 8th grade days and it works like a champ.

Dirty
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:17 AM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels View Post
Hey Dirty, I have a 2010 1200 Multistrada. These bikes have a sump plate that Ducati calls for "Ducati 3 Bond" sealer as it doesn't have a gasket. Does Loctite have something similar?
Go to TPO parts and get one of their aluminum sump plates. They seal with an o-ring and don't need any sealant. https://tpoparts.com/cat093/index.ph...&product_id=15
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:52 AM   #477
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Go to TPO parts and get one of their aluminum sump plates. They seal with an o-ring and don't need any sealant. https://tpoparts.com/cat093/index.ph...&product_id=15
This would be a great option as well, but O-Rings tend to fall into the very same catagory as cut gaskets-both of which can take a compression set/seal relaxation over time, sprouting a weep/leak.

Not saying it's definately going to happen, but it might.

Dirty
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:48 AM   #478
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Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez View Post
This would be a great option as well, but O-Rings tend to fall into the very same catagory as cut gaskets-both of which can take a compression set/seal relaxation over time, sprouting a weep/leak.

Not saying it's definately going to happen, but it might.

Dirty
Not if heat resistant silicone ones are used. The in-tank fuel pump plate on these is sealed with a viton o-ring without any problems. As far as gaskets go, I eliminate them where possible, using 515-518.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:11 PM   #479
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Not if heat resistant silicone ones are used. The in-tank fuel pump plate on these is sealed with a viton o-ring without any problems. As far as gaskets go, I eliminate them where possible, using 515-518.
Viton does stand up to oils and fuels better than buna.

Eliminating cut gaskets, instead using a Gasket Eliminator is a great idea but beware.

Sometimes assemblies rely on cut gaskets of a certain thickness to maintain internal clearances or other important things.

I'd think twice about not using a cylinder base gasket or head gasket-replacing them with Gasket Eliminators. That cut gasket in these two applications is there for a reason-that being it creates a space which doesn't throw off the timing or compression ratio. Or the timing cover off of a Ford 289 V-8...leave that cut gasket off, and you're gonna have cam gear rubbing on the inside of that timing cover.

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Old 03-30-2012, 03:37 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez View Post
Viton does stand up to oils and fuels better than buna.

Eliminating cut gaskets, instead using a Gasket Eliminator is a great idea but beware.

Sometimes assemblies rely on cut gaskets of a certain thickness to maintain internal clearances or other important things.

I'd think twice about not using a cylinder base gasket or head gasket-replacing them with Gasket Eliminators. That cut gasket in these two applications is there for a reason-that being it creates a space which doesn't throw off the timing or compression ratio. Or the timing cover off of a Ford 289 V-8...leave that cut gasket off, and you're gonna have cam gear rubbing on the inside of that timing cover.

Dirty
That's why I said "where possible". Old British singles and twins have problems with paper cylinder base gaskets in that they compress and self destruct because the cylinders walk around. I can build an engine and take the bike around the block a few times, and I'll be able to get almost 1/4 turn on the cylinder base nuts, requiring the valves to be relashed. I quit using them and always use 515 instead without any problems. Same goes for the rest of the engine. My personal Triumph has no gaskets in it with the exception of the head gasket, and has been leak free for the last 10 years. The base nuts are as tight as when I built the engine because there's metal to metal contact without a gasket. The compression ratio is 9-1/2:1, and the lack of a .015" thick gasket means virtually nothing.
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