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Old 03-10-2013, 07:54 PM   #1876
villageidiot
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went to the local southern california flat track races at perris,

this is a crf 450 framer, damn fine lookin bike, and quick too


guy in front was really cookin, i beleive it was a honda xr650r (water cooled) powered framer.



sorry for the shitty pics.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:19 PM   #1877
nachtflug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo83 View Post
I've never built a flat track bike, or raced one, so I'm looking for some info on building such things. Can someone point me to a good internet flat-track forum?
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:15 PM   #1878
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I love the pic of #2. That guy is not taking two trips to haul ass!
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:15 PM   #1879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I love the pic of #2. That guy is not taking two trips to haul ass!

Yep, great foto.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:08 AM   #1880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I love the pic of #2. That guy is not taking two trips to haul ass!
the best thing is that they coming by!



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Old 03-24-2013, 09:33 AM   #1881
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Originally Posted by jehu View Post
We have the Cafe, Road racer and Bobber threads. How's about a few of these.
fine.

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Old 03-24-2013, 09:54 PM   #1882
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Great shots! Thanks.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:39 AM   #1883
jehu OP
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#2+rigid frame+smooth track-brakes=adios!

Super shots again flug. What equipment are you using?
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:12 PM   #1884
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Originally Posted by jehu View Post
#2+rigid frame+smooth track-brakes=adios!

Super shots again flug. What equipment are you using?
thanks! those are with the D700 using a Nikon 80-200 F2.8 lens which was shortly after these were taken traded in to B&H for the 70-200 F2.8. These were taken at Donzilla's Square Deal Riders annual Larry Weiss Memorial race last July. I'm a total flat track noob and jumped in the car at 7am on a Saturday morning so as not to miss anything and got there at 9am. They're all sleeping! Duh live and learn unlike MX they don't even start practice until about 5pm. Live and learn. It was great fun and quite a night, early July, warm, stayed light late, but once the sun turned to dusk them boys started lining up for the real thing.




Wow! flat track rocks!
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:23 PM   #1885
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ps. that one was taken with the 17-35 F2.8 wide angle. I love that shot I need to print it big and hang it on the wall.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:45 PM   #1886
Donzzilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachtflug View Post
ps. that one was taken with the 17-35 F2.8 wide angle. I love that shot I need to print it big and hang it on the wall.
That's the line up for the Larry Weiss Memorial. A good title would be "The Calm Before The Storm"
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:09 PM   #1887
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
One, how many XR750s do you think were available to the masses in the first two years they were out? I'm betting not too many. Riders were still riding the Yamahas, BSAs and Triumphs for a while.

It was a different era...The BSA, Triumph and Yamaha's were all competitive ...they had been just bumped from 500cc to 750 making HD's KR 750 obsolete and HD was doing the catching up. Also, the rules at the time required that 200 motorcycles be available for sale through their dealers to be allowed to race. When the alloy XR came out 2 years after the initial stopgap iron XR was rushed into production (basically a destroked Sportster) it was available for order in any HD dealer for about $3000. All you needed was an AMA license to order one.
When Honda introduced the RS all they needed to do to be
homologated was to prove they had produced 25 engines.


As for the RS, they were pretty much pushed out when compared to what happened with the XR in the early 70s. Had the XR been restricted and weighted down to make it competitive with the kitted Yamahas/BSAs/Triumphs they might just have considered giving up. The Honda was nothing ultra trick or using totally different possibly dangerous track lines like the TZ. It was simply an up-to-date design that could have pushed the sport a bit more. Instead we got another few decades with an aging now 40 year old engine design, that has always been costly just to get set up, still pretty much dominant.

AND...as I stated...that was more Honda's doing than HD's. If Honda had stuck around and done more developement within the rules it would have forced HD to invest in R&D for a new bike to race. There are many who were around then that say HD was prepared to do that ...We'll never really know because, also as stated... Honda didn't want to compete, they wanted to dominate. If they would have been allowed to, the sport would not exist today. Because they weren't allowed, they left...poor Honda...they had the most money and the best R&D department in the industry but, they couldn't stand to be held to a standard and compete on a rules enduced equal basis with HD for what was best for the sport overall.

For so long it has been virtually spec series racing - not an XR, not competitive. I'm thinking there were a few other manufacturers that looked at what happened to Honda and were influenced. No one has made any factory effort since, because they see what happened. The AMA had to ask Bill Werner to try to make a bike that would be less costly to race. Not to beat Harley, but to cut costs. Now lets see what happens if the results start to dominate...

No one was banned and unreasonably kept out. Nnothing kept any maker from coming into the sport. Honda's continued to win for many years after the factory left...they could have kept winning if Honda had supported its customers as HD ALWAYS has with at least a supply of spare parts.

I've never heard that Bill was asked by the AMA to develope a cheaper bike. I've always thought that was his own idea...a challenge he took on himself...I'll have to ask him about that the next time I talk with him.


Nice photo's.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:21 PM   #1888
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Markk53 and I are on the same page about a lot of that stuff but that was then.

It has been a number of years now that anything with two cylinders and under 1000cc's excepting 1200cc Sportsters can race against 750cc XR's. XR's have been restricted the whole time. According to what I have read in Cycle News, the last three seasons in a row the XR's had to use bigger and bigger restrictors so that the other bikes would be competative. This past season's restrictors got them restricted enough IMO. XR's have been restricted since way back at least at some tracks whether or not a RS was in the mix or not just to slow them down regardless.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #1889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimeBiker View Post
I've never heard that Bill was asked by the AMA to develope a cheaper bike. I've always thought that was his own idea...a challenge he took on himself...I'll have to ask him about that the next time I talk with him.
FWIW:

The actual Cycle News two part article is no longer available. So here's the quote from another source. So feel free to verify.


Buying an XR750 isn't as easy as walking into your local Harley dealership. And if it were, it would cost a fortune. Which is why when Werner was tasked with finding a cheap but competitive alternative by the AMA, he looked at the Kawasaki Ninja 650 parallel-twin. "Two complete engines are just slightly more than the cost of one Harley crankshaft," Werner points out. "If you buy it right on eBay, and I've never paid more than $700 for an engine on eBay, $1500 to $2000 worth of engine mods. So you've got maybe a $3000 engine. A Harley crankshaft is $5000; if you buy the pieces, it's $5000."

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Old 03-25-2013, 08:56 PM   #1890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
Markk53 and I are on the same page about a lot of that stuff but that was then.

It has been a number of years now that anything with two cylinders and under 1000cc's excepting 1200cc Sportsters can race against 750cc XR's. XR's have been restricted the whole time. According to what I have read in Cycle News, the last three seasons in a row the XR's had to use bigger and bigger restrictors so that the other bikes would be competative. This past season's restrictors got them restricted enough IMO. XR's have been restricted since way back at least at some tracks whether or not a RS was in the mix or not just to slow them down regardless.

Many people, then and now like to point out that the XRs were restricted too, which is so true. It can be said though that the potential of the RS was crippled much more than the older tech alloy Harley.
And what about the additional weight penalty for the RS that was added for good measure when the restrictors didn't put them out of competition?
Don't get me wrong, one of my greatest thrills was watching Jay Springstein and company VS Kenny Roberts at the San Jose mile.
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