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Old 12-24-2007, 05:01 AM   #256
Max Kool
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I emaild to Scottsracing about the mount for the Xchallenge. The told me the damper is bar-mounted. Which means the post will be too short if you use risers.

I only want a sub-mount though, for I already have stuff mounted on top of the bars (GPS, roadbook, tripcomputer).
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Old 12-24-2007, 12:44 PM   #257
Cail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRed
I have the 20mm risers but not the ones that bring the bars back or forward. Surely the Scotts Damper will fit with either risers as it would fit between the mounts!??
It will work with your 20mm risers, you'll just have to measure the distance from the weld on post mount and the tab on the damper (can't remember what Scott's calls it, but it's the female part the pin goes into on the stabilizer). The weld on kit will not work with the risers that move the bars forward, as this tab is not long enough to allow fitment.

To be honest this bike is so stable we're thinking of racing it without the stabilizer. We like the bar mounts that move the bars forward and so far in the limited testing we've been able to do, we have found that we haven't needed the stabilizer. But then again 250 miles at race pace, with rocks whoops and such, I'd hate to get out of shape and end up crashing because the 350 lb. got out of shape on you.
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Old 12-24-2007, 04:23 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cail
It will work with your 20mm risers, you'll just have to measure the distance from the weld on post mount and the tab on the damper (can't remember what Scott's calls it, but it's the female part the pin goes into on the stabilizer). The weld on kit will not work with the risers that move the bars forward, as this tab is not long enough to allow fitment.

To be honest this bike is so stable we're thinking of racing it without the stabilizer. We like the bar mounts that move the bars forward and so far in the limited testing we've been able to do, we have found that we haven't needed the stabilizer. But then again 250 miles at race pace, with rocks whoops and such, I'd hate to get out of shape and end up crashing because the 350 lb. got out of shape on you.
Mmmm.. The bike is pretty stable but I have had a couple of moments on rough track at speed where the front end would have felt better with a damper on it. I would say for everyday use it is not a necessary farkle, but a desirable one and like all good accessories you only need it when you NEED it It's the same with the airshock... I am getting quite used to it now but am looking forward to fitting the Ohlins I am having built to see how it rides. What are you doing to the front end (suspension) of your race bikes Cail?

I'm looking forward to getting my rims from Woody as the OEM rims are already toast!
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:18 PM   #259
Cail
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Unfortunately we are still waiting for that front wheel from Woody's. It was supposed to be delivered today, but the shop was closed and UPS wouldn't let us pick it up. So we wait until Wed.

For the suspension all we have done is installed stiffer fork springs and put 10 weight oil in the rebound fork leg. We're hoping this will slow things down enough. As for compression side, we left the 5 wt with 20cc more fluid. We're just going to test different oil heights and weights over the next week as we don't have time (our race is in 11 days) to find a solution for the sealed damper rods. The nice thing about haveing the comp. and rebound in seperate fork legs is that we can run heavier oil in just one circuit and even different oil heights.

It will take a lot of testing, though, to find the right height and weight. Then again, it takes a lot of testing to find the right shim stakes when revalving, too. Espescially since hardly anyone has any real knowledge of a good starting point with these forks.

If we can get what we want doing the above then we'll be done with the fork. If not, we are already exploring options with Marzocchi. They feel that we can use their "Works" kit and just shorten things up to work with the 10.6" travel.

As for the shock, we do have the Ohlins and we did get to ride it briefly before sending off our bent wheel. So far we like it a lot better than the air shock. It's much more consistant. I think with more testing and just playing witht he clickers and preload we can find a setup that works.
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Old 12-25-2007, 01:38 AM   #260
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Ridden the bike across most substrates at speed and if your damaging the standard rims your going to damage the non-standard rims.

What pressures do you run?
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Old 12-25-2007, 02:52 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shardzero
Ridden the bike across most substrates at speed and if your damaging the standard rims your going to damage the non-standard rims.

What pressures do you run?
I'm running 18 in the front and 20-22 in the rear. I don't think that is too low... anything under 15 front and you have to run heavy duty tubes which adds unsprung weight to both wheels which in turn plays with your turning speed. I've been riding some pretty rocky trails but nothing over the top. My DRZ runs the same pathways and the rims are fine!
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Old 12-25-2007, 02:54 AM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cail
Unfortunately we are still waiting for that front wheel from Woody's. It was supposed to be delivered today, but the shop was closed and UPS wouldn't let us pick it up. So we wait until Wed.

For the suspension all we have done is installed stiffer fork springs and put 10 weight oil in the rebound fork leg. We're hoping this will slow things down enough. As for compression side, we left the 5 wt with 20cc more fluid. We're just going to test different oil heights and weights over the next week as we don't have time (our race is in 11 days) to find a solution for the sealed damper rods. The nice thing about haveing the comp. and rebound in seperate fork legs is that we can run heavier oil in just one circuit and even different oil heights.

It will take a lot of testing, though, to find the right height and weight. Then again, it takes a lot of testing to find the right shim stakes when revalving, too. Espescially since hardly anyone has any real knowledge of a good starting point with these forks.

If we can get what we want doing the above then we'll be done with the fork. If not, we are already exploring options with Marzocchi. They feel that we can use their "Works" kit and just shorten things up to work with the 10.6" travel.

As for the shock, we do have the Ohlins and we did get to ride it briefly before sending off our bent wheel. So far we like it a lot better than the air shock. It's much more consistant. I think with more testing and just playing witht he clickers and preload we can find a setup that works.
I'll be working with Terry Hayes here from Race Tech on my suspension. Any feedback will be appreciated thanks.
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:59 AM   #263
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Steve & Todd, as you guys figure out improvements for the front forks you keep us posted, OK? Thanks!

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Old 12-25-2007, 10:44 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFinn
Steve & Todd, as you guys figure out improvements for the front forks you keep us posted, OK? Thanks!

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Old 12-26-2007, 02:26 AM   #265
Metteke
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For those who think the fork is too stiff, you can take out the bushings under the springs. Changes the preload of the spring if you want.
A colleague from finland did this to race on an mx track. Seems to work well. I'll try it, since I'm only 70kilo's in full gear... just have to find the time
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:40 AM   #266
Max Kool
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Metteke,

if I want to remove that spacer, I which direction should I dial the compression and rebound adjusters before I unbolt the fork caps?
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:38 AM   #267
Cail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metteke
For those who think the fork is too stiff, you can take out the bushings under the springs. Changes the preload of the spring if you want.
A colleague from finland did this to race on an mx track. Seems to work well. I'll try it, since I'm only 70kilo's in full gear... just have to find the time
We feel the fork is too soft. On the 3' whoops that make up most of the BITD course the fork is too soft. We like it's initial plushness, but then it blows through it's travel too fast. It also uses a lot of travel when braking, too much weight transfer in the sand.

As to tire pressure. We're running 18 in the front. Normally on my XR 650R I run 15 and don't have any problems with the D.I.D. rims on it. Any more than 15 or so and you're not getting the use of the tire sidewall as a added cushion. This really does play into suspension tuning, a lot actually. It also really changes the way a bike handles. You do want "give" in a tire/tube. It must absorb the square edges, needs to give a bit in side to side manuevers and do so consistently. You tune all this with tire pressue.

Also, here in AZ and NV were the BITD races take place there are tons of rocks. Rocks of every size and lots of square edges. It is these rocks that have damaged our wheel. Racing to the bottom of the Grand Canyon in that rally, there were a lot of bowling ball size rocks. At speed, I think we averaged around 50 mph in that section, and we hit a few rocks. Just a few. In fact I had only put one ding in the rim before that, just happened to be right on the rim lock, and after that stage, the front wheel looked like a stop sign. It was especially bad racing back up out of the canyon in the dark, we hit even more then.

I have heard from more than a few folks that the stock BMW wheels are a little soft.

Anyway, I'll keep you all posted on our testing. BTW-are any of you on BMW's XPLOR forum?
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:56 AM   #268
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I agree. For me also the front preload is fine, if anything there could be bit more, no less for sure.
But the issue is how easy the forks dive though the travel. Before trying to get stiffer springs I probably am going to see what happens if I rise the oil level a bit. That should make the forks more progressive...

Anyone have a good guess what (weight) fork oil Gunter used when assembling these forks?

Or actually, Gunter didn't put these bikes together, it was Marco.

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Old 12-26-2007, 12:38 PM   #269
Cail
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I think it's 5 wt. We put 10 wt in the preload fork to slow it down some more. We also added 20cc to the compression side. We have done very limited testing, so don't use these as a standard, just what we're trying right now. Hopefully if that DA%M wheel ever shows up we can do more testing this weekend.
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:18 PM   #270
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Well out of the four bikes running last weekend... 1 x HP2 and 2 x GX with a Dakar running sweep or donkey... Only the GX's had damaged front rims. I will be talking with BMW today to see if anything can be done.
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