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Old 02-28-2012, 06:47 AM   #45451
Gonzo_Matt
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Nascar was fun to watch in the 80's when the cars actually resembled cars and the drivers were hard asses. Now it's so frigging lame, with the templates all being the same and the stupid points system they use now.

Read Richard Petty's autobiography, it tells it how nascar should be.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:56 AM   #45452
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Laugh

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Old 02-28-2012, 08:30 AM   #45453
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Dirt is for racing, asphalt is for getting there
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:41 AM   #45454
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Racing on a paved circle bores the shit outta me.

Now rally racing looks fun.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:49 AM   #45455
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Originally Posted by SCQTT View Post
Montoya was a hack in F1 & he is a hack in Nascar too.

Nascar is the same as a basketball game, all that matters is the last few seconds.....up to that point you are trading points or driving in a loud circular parade. Almost any of us could jump into one of their cars and go 90% as fast as they do. That last 10% is a bitch....I'll give you that, but do you think those guys could come within 10% of a MotoGP lap time? How about Supercross?

In the old days if you broke away from the pack you might win a race by a lap or two, now if you break away & get more than 50 yards on the 2nd place car there is a fake caution (debris on the track!!!) to bunch you back up. It is not about racing, it is about that last lap charge for the checkers.....for the fans.

No thank you.
Sorry, pure ignorance of the topic. Montoya won CART's championship as a rookie. Hack? You don't know what you're talking about.

He won several F1 races in a middling car. Hack? He was competing against Schumacher and Raikkenen in those years, and often had to out race them for his successes. Yeah...pure hack.

I don't even know where to begin with your derision of NASCAR, except that it's a popular and silly position held by a lot of people that hate their own culture to the point of blindness, but just do this math for yourself - some of the best drivers in the world competed against NASCAR's best in IROC and other forms of racing, and didn't dominate the circle track guys. Some racers like John Andretti who have won at every form of racing there is practically joined it and didn't do very well. Mr. Baja Robby Gordon? Stinks in NASCAR. Former bike champions have tried it, and failed. Ringers like Boris Said are hired because of their impeccable road course skill, yet seldom win.

You also talk as if all the races are restrictor plate races, which is utterly absurd. They race on everything from high banked 1/2 miles to diamonds, to road courses, to super speedways. Sure, what you describe is true at Daytona (to a small degree), but is a naive way of describing the whole sport. At a race like Bristol, the lead cars often lap the 4th or 5th place cars, breakaway is common as it is on a lot of NASCAR tracks. Do you even watch the sport to have such an opinion?

At some tracks, or even their road courses, you are riding on the ragged edge of loss of traction in a heavy car with skinny tires (relative to open wheel), and you have to hold that car there for hours on end, better than 42 of the best drivers in the business. That's something 90% of us could do just as well?

Bullshit.

I did the Dover experience which is a mere 80% power version of NASCAR several years ago, and it was FUCKING HARD. The difference between a good line and being in the concrete was as fine and as tenuous as anything I've ever felt in an automobile or on a motorcycle, it physically exhausted me after 10 laps. And, I was alone. I didn't have to be 4" from some other car or worry about passing or being passed. They do 400 laps, and faster with more power to control, and have to navigate a huge field of cars. If you think you just drive in a circle, or it's easy, you are high.

What's sad is, I'm not even a big fan of NASCAR, it's just another of many forms of professional racing I have watched or pay attention to.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:03 AM   #45456
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Sorry, pure ignorance of the topic. Montoya won CART's championship as a rookie. Hack? You don't know what you're talking about.

He won several F1 races in a middling car. Hack? He was competing against Schumacher and Raikkenen in those years, and often had to out race them for his successes. Yeah...pure hack.

I don't even know where to begin with your derision of NASCAR, except that it's a popular and silly position held by a lot of people that hate their own culture to the point of blindness, but just do this math for yourself - some of the best drivers in the world competed against NASCAR's best in IROC and other forms of racing, and didn't dominate the circle track guys. Some racers like John Andretti who have won at every form of racing there is practically joined it and didn't do very well. Mr. Baja Robby Gordon? Stinks in NASCAR. Former bike champions have tried it, and failed. Ringers like Boris Said are hired because of their impeccable road course skill, yet seldom win.

You also talk as if all the races are restrictor plate races, which is utterly absurd. They race on everything from high banked 1/2 miles to diamonds, to road courses, to super speedways. Sure, what you describe is true at Daytona (to a small degree), but is a naive way of describing the whole sport. At a race like Bristol, the lead cars often lap the 4th or 5th place cars, breakaway is common as it is on a lot of NASCAR tracks. Do you even watch the sport to have such an opinion?

At some tracks, or even their road courses, you are riding on the ragged edge of loss of traction in a heavy car with skinny tires (relative to open wheel), and you have to hold that car there for hours on end, better than 42 of the best drivers in the business. That's something 90% of us could do just as well?

Bullshit.

I did the Dover experience which is a mere 80% power version of NASCAR several years ago, and it was FUCKING HARD. The difference between a good line and being in the concrete was as fine and as tenuous as anything I've ever felt in an automobile or on a motorcycle, it physically exhausted me after 10 laps. And, I was alone. I didn't have to be 4" from some other car or worry about passing or being passed. They do 400 laps, and faster with more power to control, and have to navigate a huge field of cars. If you think you just drive in a circle, or it's easy, you are high.

What's sad is, I'm not even a big fan of NASCAR, it's just another of many forms of professional racing I have watched or pay attention to.
Your rant-fu is strong today, sensei.

And I totally agree with every friggin' word.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:08 AM   #45457
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Originally Posted by swingset View Post
I don't even know where to begin with your derision of NASCAR, except that it's a popular and silly position held by a lot of people that hate their own culture to the point of blindness, but just do this math for yourself - some of the best drivers in the world competed against NASCAR's best in IROC and other forms of racing, and didn't dominate the circle track guys. Some racers like John Andretti who have won at every form of racing there is practically joined it and didn't do very well. Mr. Baja Robby Gordon? Stinks in NASCAR. Former bike champions have tried it, and failed. Ringers like Boris Said are hired because of their impeccable road course skill, yet seldom win.

You also talk as if all the races are restrictor plate races, which is utterly absurd. They race on everything from high banked 1/2 miles to diamonds, to road courses, to super speedways. Sure, what you describe is true at Daytona (to a small degree), but is a naive way of describing the whole sport. At a race like Bristol, the lead cars often lap the 4th or 5th place cars, breakaway is common as it is on a lot of NASCAR tracks. Do you even watch the sport to have such an opinion?

At some tracks, or even their road courses, you are riding on the ragged edge of loss of traction in a heavy car with skinny tires (relative to open wheel), and you have to hold that car there for hours on end, better than 42 of the best drivers in the business. That's something 90% of us could do just as well?

Bullshit.

I did the Dover experience which is a mere 80% power version of NASCAR several years ago, and it was FUCKING HARD. The difference between a good line and being in the concrete was as fine and as tenuous as anything I've ever felt in an automobile or on a motorcycle, it physically exhausted me after 10 laps. And, I was alone. I didn't have to be 4" from some other car or worry about passing or being passed. They do 400 laps, and faster with more power to control, and have to navigate a huge field of cars. If you think you just drive in a circle, or it's easy, you are high.

What's sad is, I'm not even a big fan of NASCAR, it's just another of many forms of professional racing I have watched or pay attention to.
Thank you for the rant, I was about to do the same but didn't have the time nor energy. I've tried to explain the same to my son who just started driving and comments how easy it would be to drive in circles as fast as you can. He doesn't have a clue!
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:23 AM   #45458
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Went and watched this over the weekend in Steelvile/Salem MO. Had no idea. Anybody want to go in on a rally car?

Rally cars are a blast, but if you think we have land use issues...

I love driving and I'm far faster on four wheels than two, but I'm sticking with bikes for the reduced cost and frustration.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:28 AM   #45459
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Sorry, pure ignorance of the topic.
.....
What's sad is, I'm not even a big fan of NASCAR, it's just another of many forms of professional racing I have watched or pay attention to.
I guess what I dont get is the huge spectator interest in the sport. Obviously the racers are very good, probably some of the best in the world because the money is the best in the world. But for a spectator it looks pretty boring to me. Especially the popular oval races. The level of skill required is much more obvious in off-road and bike racing.


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Old 02-28-2012, 09:54 AM   #45460
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Bump for dinner tonight.....

http://starlinerdiner.com/

Starliner Diner in Hilliard

Arrive 6:15 -7? or later!

looking to be a good turnout tonight.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:58 AM   #45461
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I'm kind of with Scott on this one. JPM has talent, but his attitude sucked most of the time in F1. He had enough incidents on the track to prove it.

As for Nascar, it isn't easy, but I don't like it. Ovals don't interest me. The fact that you can't make a mistake without smashing your own car along with a dozen others makes for a whole lot of boring racing as far as I'm concerned. The fact that the cars aren't based off of production cars, but they put headlight stickers on them to make them look like they are, annoys me as well. I'd rather watch the Australian V8 Supercars or the British Touring Cars, or SCCA World Challenge, A Sedan or T1.

Then again, I'n not the Nascar's targeted customer and I'd much rather have watched these back in the day:
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:26 AM   #45462
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Yeah, the original Trans Am was some good racing. I wish I could find my Mark Donahue autograph.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:32 AM   #45463
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Swing I might know a little more about it that you think.

I did not say 90% of us could do as good, I said most of us could go 90% as fast as them....They are good drivers and that last 10% is what sets them apart......I'm saying they lap at 200.....most of us could lap at 180 pertty easy.....that last 10% is a bitch.

I'll still think JPM a complete hack driver, he belongs in Nascar where wrecking is apropos.

Mansell pretty much destroyed cart in 1993, showing just how much better F1 drivers are.....I think is has been a long time since we have had a successful American in F1.

One of the reasons I hate JPM so much is BMW NA forced Button (a much better driver) out of the seat of the Williams to install "pseudo American" JPM, because BMW thought he would be recognizable in their biggest market, the US.

From Wiki.....I know I know, but I agree.

Montoya has been criticized during his Formula One career for his unreliability and tendency to make costly mistakes. His driving style is too characteristic of the 80s Formula One era. In this matter, it was difficult to build a car that suited him well as engineers and aerodynamicists had to adapt their work to build chassis that were more suited to finer and smoother driving styles. Moreover, Montoya failed to adapt to the cars that were provided for him.
Entering his sixth season, in 2006, it was evident that Juan Pablo Montoya had not developed into a title contender. In particular, after five full seasons, the necessary consistency never materialized. However, he often challenged for race victories and was voted top Latin American driver at the Premios Fox Sports awards in 2003 and 2005.[2

Yes, 7 wins in 6 years of F1 is way better than me, but I am tired of people putting him on a pedestal.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:40 AM   #45464
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thanks for my new desktop
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:31 AM   #45465
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It has come to my attention that several pages back there was a lot of banter about a Baja expedition while I was in the middle of ours. I sent GCMC my number today to start a dialog on how to make it happen. If there is enough interest I told her I would help plan or facilitate.

Shit I don't even have the bikes out of the truck from Baja 2012 and planning for the next one is being discussed!
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