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Old 01-28-2015, 02:38 PM   #1
zapochris OP
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Collarbone fracture and shoulder pads question.

Hi all,

Just have a simple question regarding the effectiveness of shoulder armor vs. clavicle (collarbone) fractures. I've read reports where bikers had spills and wound up with the clavicle fractured, even though they wore full AGATT. I guess I'm questioning whether the shoulder armor is affective or just a false panacea. Yes my interest is in removing shoulder armor to allow more comfort and eary ingress. Just wanted the folks to chime in with your thoughts.

Thanks...
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:41 PM   #2
Draadwerk
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Collarbone fracture and shoulder pads question.

Good question. I would also be very interested in hearing the opinions and answers. I use rally3 jacket and have a leat GPX pro neckbrace. The brace is unusable with the shoulder protection which means I have a very new and expensive brace as a white elephant...

Draadwerk screwed with this post 01-28-2015 at 02:42 PM Reason: mistake
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:49 PM   #3
max384
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Shoulder armor will provide some protection from clavicle fractures because some of the impact force will be lessened. However, even the best shoulder and chest armor leaves the collarbone quite vulnerable. The collarbone usually breaks from the force of the shoulder being pushed back toward the chest/neck area. With the collarbone being such a thin and weak long bone, it often breaks. Without armor that stops the shoulder from moving back toward the chest/neck area, there is not too much we can do to prevent collarbone breaks in a wreck. But, some protection is better than no protection, so wear the armor!
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:55 PM   #4
ahtoxa11
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In my opinion, the shoulder pads are designed to spread out the force of the impact over a larger area. By spreading the force over a larger area, the felt impact will always be reduced to a degree, but it cannot be fully compensated for, as the shoulder as a whole will still experience the impact. Given a hard enough hit, it will still break bones.

Is shoulder (or any) armor going to prevent bone breakage? No, not really, if hit hard enough. But, it does help lessen the felt impact.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:11 PM   #5
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The shoulder is the most complex joint on your body and if whacked hard enough can take a looooooog pain filled time to recover (I know this from experience) you can do a lot worse to it than break a collar bone - in a hard crash you will be thankful for all the protection you gave it
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:03 PM   #6
Racer111v
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I consider my collar bone as a safety valve for my shoulder. I think I would take an other broken collar bone over any other shoulder injury. My doctor pretty much said if you put two pieces of collar bone in a room they will heal together. I have taken some pretty hard hits with suspended style shoulder pads on, and haven't done any serious damage. Sewn in shoulder padding is minimal at best.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:19 PM   #7
juddspaintballs
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Shoulder armor is for your shoulder joint protection. I'd rather break a clavicle than a rotator socket. Long straight bones are easier to repair and heal.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:53 PM   #8
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Not Either Or

Quote:
Originally Posted by juddspaintballs View Post
Shoulder armor is for your shoulder joint protection. I'd rather break a clavicle than a rotator socket. Long straight bones are easier to repair and heal.

Just a comment...the clavicle is one of the most commonly broken bones...easy to fracture with direct impact and it is exposed.

Here is the big danger...the subclavian arteries [under clavicles] very major arteries and if torn can quickly lead to hypovolemic shock...not good! Joints can be repaired to a lesser or greater degree; but you need perfusion just to stay alive.

Just sayin' and I do not see any armor that totally protects the clavicles.

Nobody said it would be safe...

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Old 01-29-2015, 03:18 AM   #9
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Will a neck brace be better protection than shoulder pads? Because you can't use both simultaneously
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:06 AM   #10
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Here is a thread on a biking forum about shoulder pads and neck braces, which are compatible.

http://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomm...1123&pagenum=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
Just a comment...the clavicle is one of the most commonly broken bones...easy to fracture with direct impact and it is exposed.

Here is the big danger...the subclavian arteries [under clavicles] very major arteries and if torn can quickly lead to hypovolemic shock...not good! Joints can be repaired to a lesser or greater degree; but you need perfusion just to stay alive.

Just sayin' and I do not see any armor that totally protects the clavicles.

Nobody said it would be safe...

Phil
Subclavian artery rupture from a clavicle fracture is very rare. It's rare enough that case reports of this happening are published in major medical journals. These journals obviously only publish case reports if they're rare and interesting.
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:38 AM   #11
dragos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draadwerk View Post
Will a neck brace be better protection than shoulder pads? Because you can't use both simultaneously
I guess there are lots of neck braces that can.
The Leatt STX (street model), Atlas, Ortema.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draadwerk View Post
Will a neck brace be better protection than shoulder pads? Because you can't use both simultaneously

Having shattered a C6 vertebra twenty four years agon I can tell you I'd rather have avoided having to learn to walk again, two months (short time all considered) in the hospital, and about two years recovery to the point I am now. I have some muscle loss in my left leg due to nerve damage that stopped full use of the muscle. I'd trade all that and the continued chronic pain due to nerve damage (ya learn to live with it) for a broken collar bone...

I picked up a Leatt DBX Comp II (same as GPX, but a bit different soft pads) to avoid injury since now C5,6,7 are fused and I cannot afford another break in my neck. If I'd had it back in 90, before they were made, I'd likely not have had the injury, a forward whiplash.

Off topic a shade... I can deal other stuff, just getting back to 100% after broken ankle due to over rotation I think. I actually am better than before, since I started doing a walking regime that involves four flights of steps in each lap, end up with 12 up/down. I concentrated on full proper motion and walking through pain that I know is age/arthritic/ghost pain. No more knee issues and smooth constant gait walking flat and up steps - best thing I've ever done - I'm just short of 62 so it is a big deal.

Side note: Leatt now does a compatable shoulder set up.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:54 AM   #13
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There are no guarantees with blunt force trauma injuries. The use of shoulder protection, whether it be chest protector with shoulder protection or an armored jacket allows the force of most blows to be dispersed. This lessens, in most cases, the severity of the injury but does not protect against all.The use of shoulder protection and neck braces for racing is fairly we'll documented.We are all the captain of our vessels when we chose to ride motorcycles. I would say wear the protection always and ride with your head not your heart.
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:49 AM   #14
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As others have stated, there's no one item of protective gear that will guarantee things won't go wrong. I was doing some aggressive trail riding (translated literally, "riding faster than my skill set would allow") and high-sided onto some very stubborn and immoveable rocks, breaking both collarbones and 10 ribs on the left side. I hesitate to think what the carnage would have been had I not been wearing a roost, kidney belt and the rest of my MX gear. And yeah, an injury like that will come back to haunt you at night years later when old age settles into your bones….

Sure seemed like fun at the time.

Edit/Add: I have been told by many riders that the most frequent method of breaking the collarbone is from the chin bar of the helmet forcefully striking the collarbone. Don't know if that's true or not. Suppose we could do a controlled experiment and do some crashing with and without helmet? You go first….
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:04 PM   #15
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The answer is "Who knows?"

I broke my shoulder in three places last October in a fairly low speed "lay down" on the righ side. Not real slow, but I thought I would pick my 800GS up and ride away. I was wearing my Gen 1 Klim Adventure jacket with a Leatt brace. I think the brace caused the damage when the side of the brace impacted my shoulder. But, really, IMHO, it was the tiny, slipping Klim shoulder armor that precipitated it. If the armor had stayed in place, its tiny little place, then the brace would have distributed its force over that area.

Because shoulder armor is likely to be pushed around quite a bit in a get-off, it needs to provide ample coverage. I like the Forcefield armor more than any other.
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