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Old 05-02-2012, 07:46 AM   #6496
donnh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafman60 View Post
I have a lot of experience with auxiliary fuel plumbing on the XCo. If you search back, Ive posted information and tips from my experiences.
Ah yes, I knew I've read about this somewhere, I'll search back to your posts.


Quote:
Several quick things if you install an aux tank and plumb a gravity/siphon feed to the stock tank vent tube. This will work fine but I recommend disassembly of the stock tip-over valve mechanism where the vent tube enters the stock tank. Just remove the internal shut-off parts to disable the closing of this valve. (This can be replaced later if desired.) Otherwise, you may have a case where the shut-off valve closes under use and shuts of the pull from the aux tank.
Good point - will do. I suppose in a tip over the gas will just go to the Aux tank.

Quote:
Be sure to vent the aux tank !
I'm guessing the ACERBIS tank has a vented cap but I'll be sure to check.

Quote:
You biggest problem eventually will be the stock gas cap. This must be reliably air-tight and the stock cap will sooner or later leak. The result will be that the gravity/siphon feed will be broken and/or fuel will stream out of the stock cap and run down the side of your tank. I've posted a lot about this too.
I see your point. My first thought was to leave the Aux tank valve closed for the first 100 miles and then open it to feed the main tank. The idea being that the main tank would then never be full enough to leak out of the cap. Of course the problem is I would be shutting off the vent. I suppose I could have a second valve for the vent but now it starts getting complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtw000 View Post
I went this way. I made a bracket to hold the 5l tank to the front of the bash plate. It worked fine.

But I moved it to here for a bigger trip. Again, no problems. The hose is critical though. It gave me a 200 miles plus range.

I preferred it on the side just out of worry that it might get in the way on the front although it never seemed to. Altogether it cost about 70. One of the bet mods I made.
Thanks for the tip jtw. Is that the ACERBIS number plate tank? Could I presume that mounting the tank below the level of the gas cap solves the cap spilling problem? I'm not sure about the exposure of the tank on the side but I might be able to tuck one in the region of the HB Pannier brackets which is somewhat below gas cap level.

Leafman: Interesting idea about expanding the tank. Yes, I need to think about that.

I'm going to noodle over these ideas some more while pretending to work today I know there is an elegant solution somewhere. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:58 AM   #6497
muddyrabbit
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Fuel tank discussion.
This worked great in Mexico:


I put a brass barb on the end of the tube inside the aux tank to keep it down in the bottom of the tank. Drains every last drop of fuel.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:39 AM   #6498
snooker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafman60 View Post
...
Now, on the gas situation - an option that I have considered but not yet tried is to heat and swell the stock tank ! I even bought a spare stock tank to try.

Here's my thought. Seal up and cap-off the tank but provide an inlet for compressed air to pressurize the tank. Pressurize the tank. Then, using a heat blanket like used for heating and bending PVC pipe or a heat gun, warm the outside of the tank to soften it enough to allow the internal air pressure to blow the side out some and thus increase its capacity. There is enough space between your leg and the tank to accommodate a moderate expansion of the tank. A little bit of expansion would dramatically increase the stock tank capacity.

Think about it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:49 AM   #6499
kelly1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafman60 View Post
I have a lot of experience with auxiliary fuel plumbing on the XCo. If you search back, Ive posted information and tips from my experiences.


Now, on the gas situation - an option that I have considered but not yet tried is to heat and swell the stock tank ! I even bought a spare stock tank to try.

Here's my thought. Seal up and cap-off the tank but provide an inlet for compressed air to pressurize the tank. Pressurize the tank. Then, using a heat blanket like used for heating and bending PVC pipe or a heat gun, warm the outside of the tank to soften it enough to allow the internal air pressure to blow the side out some and thus increase its capacity. There is enough space between your leg and the tank to accommodate a moderate expansion of the tank. A little bit of expansion would dramatically increase the stock tank capacity.

Think about it.
I have done this on mx bikes before using boiling water and a heat gun. I bulged out mx tanks to get about 20% more volume. Some suggestions. First thing is to force out all the fuel vapours from the tank by filling it with water. Mount the tank in the bike when using the compressed air to expand so it doesn't grow where you don't want it to and then it's too big to fit. I would just plug the air nozzle right into the vent line, you don't need much pressure but you have to let it cool under that pressure and do it more than once as they shrink back in size somewhat. The hot water is good because it heats the inside up also as your hitting it with the gun on the outside. In this situation because you only want one a single concentrated area to expand, I think the hot air gun is the ticket. Depending how much you want to go, don't try and do it all in one blow, you risk getting the plastic to soft. If its a high temp heat gun move it around allot because the plastic softens faster than you think.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:06 AM   #6500
DirtyFrog
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Talking XC in the Bay Area?

Long time lurker here...

So I've finally managed to convince the gf that I NEED to get a bike again after a 15+ year hiatus I'm considering a XC but have yet to see one in the flesh. Anyone here is located in the Bay Area so I could have a look and get "live" feedback on the bike?

TIA,

DirtyFrog
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:32 PM   #6501
TangoMcBlasty
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Muddy,

Is that pannier+tank combo hanging off a Hepco rack? And if so, do you have an aluminum or steel subframe? I was thinking about mounting a tank inboard of my HB pannier but worried that the weight would be an issue. I've got an 07 aluminum subframe with M6 bolts.

-Tango


Quote:
Originally Posted by muddyrabbit View Post
Fuel tank discussion.
This worked great in Mexico:


I put a brass barb on the end of the tube inside the aux tank to keep it down in the bottom of the tank. Drains every last drop of fuel.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:46 PM   #6502
leafman60
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Answering some comments -

On the acerbis tank, I used the solid cap (not the siphon). You drill out the nib in the center to allow venting. Then you'll need a short 2-3 inch piece of tubing on there to accommodate burps when full. I have the petcock on the bottom of my tank and leave it on reserve so the tank will drain fully as it goes into the stock tank. Yes, the aux tank cannot be turned off and it must have an air opening to allow venting.

On heating the tank to expand it, if a heat gun is used, yes, constant movement is essential. I am a bit more partial to the heat blanket. Ive used those on construction sites to wrap around pvc to soften it and allow bending. Its heat is uniform and controllable. It unrolls to a flat rectangle that could be laid upon the side of the tank. Yes, theyre expensive but I expect they can be rented or borrowed. Shoulda kept mine !

http://www.greenlee.com/products/BLA...oduct_id=17311

Mine in action on a little cross-country trip. Did I say Cross Country ? XCo ?


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Old 05-02-2012, 06:18 PM   #6503
Geoffster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoMcBlasty View Post
Muddy,

Is that pannier+tank combo hanging off a Hepco rack? And if so, do you have an aluminum or steel subframe? I was thinking about mounting a tank inboard of my HB pannier but worried that the weight would be an issue. I've got an 07 aluminum subframe with M6 bolts.

-Tango
Something we don't talk about on this thread -- but perhaps we should -- is the wide range of ways we use our XCo's and how that colors our recommendations.

- We have street-scrambler riders who are fine with bikes that are mostly stock;

- We have domestic adventure riders who do some mods, but for whom multiple redundancy is not required;

- We have serious off-pavement riders or international adventure riders for whom failure is not an option.

When Muddy and I appeared to disagree about Hyde bash plates, the unspoken variable was I'm a domestic adventure rider and he's a hard charging, off-pavement guy. What is sufficient for my adventures is unacceptable for him. That's totally cool. I've already got my Hyde (a gift from a fellow inmate), and obtaining a new Scheffelmeier is an expensive option at this point. But if I was riding faster or harder or in far away places, you'd bet I'd have a Scheffelmeier!

But about the aluminum subframe ...

For 100% peace-of-mind on a RTW tour, I'd change to a 2009 or Touratech steel subframe. But is it necessary for my adventures? Probably not: Colebatch used an aluminum subframe (with through-holes) for 65,000 km. (See http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=3463)
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:22 PM   #6504
leafman60
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Yes, and what the bike was designed for is relevant in that conversation. People who want something mostly for off-road may be better suited to the XChallenge sibling bike or a Husky etc.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:29 PM   #6505
Geoffster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyFrog View Post
Long time lurker here...

So I've finally managed to convince the gf that I NEED to get a bike again after a 15+ year hiatus I'm considering a XC but have yet to see one in the flesh. Anyone here is located in the Bay Area so I could have a look and get "live" feedback on the bike?

TIA,

DirtyFrog
I should be riding through San Francisco before the end of the month. Keep in touch.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:58 PM   #6506
muddyrabbit
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Geoffster, I agree, it's all about intended mission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoMcBlasty;[URL="tel:18597485"
18597485[/URL]]Muddy,

Is that pannier+tank combo hanging off a Hepco rack? And if so, do you have an aluminum or steel subframe? I was thinking about mounting a tank inboard of my HB pannier but worried that the weight would be an issue. I've got an 07 aluminum subframe with M6 bolts.

-Tango
Tango, yes that's Hepco Becker racks with Happy Trails panniers. I have the aluminum sub frame, and properly reinforced and modified I would go round the world without a worry. I carry panniers and a passenger off road once in a while. Mine has gussets welded in and the M6 bolts are now M8 bolts that go all the way through.





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Old 05-02-2012, 09:54 PM   #6507
jtw000
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I wouldn't recommend that much weight on the subframe, any subframe. What you get with the X-country is a great little lightweight single, if you pack her conservatively they tour with the best of them but adding too much load kills the advantage. I had no issues with mine mounted to the side, I even laid her down on the tank while I worked on her and everything was fine. That moves the weight to the best position, down low. I also like throwovers and used Dirtbagz. Not cheap but the metal frame was awesome and protected her when someone knocked her over in the street. They swallowed a lot of abuse.
The Acerbis tank worked well for me but the tube seal is critical, get it wrong and it won't suck fuel. I had no issues with it in 0 degrees and desert riding.

Donnh.

Yeah, it's the basic acerbis enduro fork-mount kit. I went with 5 litre as 3 seemed a bit pointless. If you're going with the smaller then mounted to the bash-plate is ideal but shift the weight up to the lower frame just in case. I never concerned myself with exposure. If I crash hard enough to do damage then so what? I lose my aux tank and it saves my radiator in the process. It's not my main tank and I can live without it so my primary concern was just keeping it out of the way. One of the issues (as you all know) is the size of these bikes, finding mounting points is hard work. I have the ally rear frame so kept my load light and well distributed. No issues. I was keen to not tempt fate and stick my spare fuel up there though, just in case.
You really don't need to over-stress yourself about venting, acerbis did all that for you. It's a plug and play unit and I plugged it in and went playing. No problems.

jtw000 screwed with this post 05-02-2012 at 10:03 PM
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:31 AM   #6508
muddyrabbit
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I should also point out that my x spent 3 years being thrashed around with luggage and passenger and never developed any cracks in the sub frame. Just adding the H&B racks adds support for the rear frame. Adding the gussets was just a preventative measure. You do want to take care not to overload, but the luggage loaded up with everything i take on a trip still weighs less than a passenger, and is lower on the bike than a passenger. Also the $150 xchallenge air shock never bottoms, as long as it has the proper air pressure in it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:11 AM   #6509
jtw000
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I guess people kit their bikes in different ways. I did a lot of research and put a lot of thought into getting it right and factored in all the weaknesses of the design and compensated for them. I rode 25000 miles last year, commuting in London, green-laning, enduro tracking, touring Europe and crossing the Middle-East and Asia without a single issue (except 4 incidents of people trying to steal her). Treat these bikes properly and they can do anything.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:00 PM   #6510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtw000 View Post
I guess people kit their bikes in different ways. I did a lot of research and put a lot of thought into getting it right and factored in all the weaknesses of the design and compensated for them. I rode 25000 miles last year, commuting in London, green-laning, enduro tracking, touring Europe and crossing the Middle-East and Asia without a single issue (except 4 incidents of people trying to steal her). Treat these bikes properly and they can do anything.
Amazing! I'm curious as to which of Colebatch's mods you matched, and in which ways you went a different direction.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: these bikes are keepers!
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