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Old 04-12-2014, 07:52 PM   #1
Jimm Dandy OP
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am I just a WUSS??

i installed a ural hack on my dl1000.. the only thing i really dont like is the sensation i get at about 60 mph.. the air under the tub starts to feel like its tryin to lift it.. I THINK I know its never gonna be able to lift it but just the sensation is unnerving to me.. has anyone else felt like this and i wonder if i could do some sort of an air dam to create a down draft??
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:46 PM   #2
ked
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yup, you're a wuss. PM me with your address and i'll take it off your hands.

seriously, i have the Wee, and i want to put a Ural type chair on it. i would prefer a Vee, but i already have the Wee.

i know not about your specific problem, but i see that you have been running the v/Dnepr for a year. has it always felt this way? i am sorta surprised that you haven't got used to it.

hopefully, you get some useful responses, unlike mine.

ked
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:52 PM   #3
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
i installed a ural hack on my dl1000.. the only thing i really dont like is the sensation i get at about 60 mph.. the air under the tub starts to feel like its tryin to lift it.. I THINK I know its never gonna be able to lift it but just the sensation is unnerving to me.. has anyone else felt like this and i wonder if i could do some sort of an air dam to create a down draft??
Possible....The DL1000's have very soft shocks on the stock. The wind lift may be present but it is probably compressing the bike suspension as you gain speed. The sensation would be similar to the car trying to lift.

You should practice lifting the sidecar in a parking lot or a safe place so you know when it is at that point.

Large high speed sweepers on the interstate with side winds and/or a lot of truck traffic can create a hairy feeling until you get used to it.

So stiffer shocks should be acquired when you can. An anti-swaybar would also make a huge difference.
And above all PRACTICE!

I have cruised at well over 75 with a DL1000 outfit with two variations of our sidecars on it. Did this with with stock suspension , with aftermarket works shocks and with the shocks plus a swaybar. All setups mentioned were different....from worst to best in order.
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claude screwed with this post 04-12-2014 at 10:01 PM
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:51 AM   #4
Jimm Dandy OP
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thanks Claude..I WISH I could get that antisway bar from ya..only 1 teensie weensie prollem..the LARGE space between Idaho and Pennsylvania.. for NOW I guess I will just have to COWBOY UP.. I do have an ohlins rear shock and race tech shock springs.. I might try addin some preload to my rear shock.. I guess when those Russian boys designed the Dnepr and ural hacks they didn't have aerodynamics in mind.mostof my ridin has been around town.. looks like I need more hwy time
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:45 AM   #5
claude
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[PRACTICE!! It will take time. We have mounted a lot of of Urals and Dneprs as well as Chaings to the GS bikes. They can be made to work well. Shocks are as mentioned a big plus if they are setup right. You need rebound dampening! Any spring is trying to unload....so left handers are the problem child. Right handers will be fine with practice. Aero lift is Not a bad thing and can be better than downforce on a sidecar outit which creates undesired drag. Drag means pull to the right....so...I think if you practice with what you have and find the limits you will soon not be so concerned with what you are feeling at this time.
The key is practice as mentioned previously.
Couple more QUESTIONS:
1) What is your track width?( cwnterline of bike rear wheel to centerline of sidecar wheel
2) How much wheel lead are you running?
3) Who did the mounts?
4) Who did the installation?




QUOTE=Jimm Dandy;23922116]thanks Claude..I WISH I could get that antisway bar from ya..only 1 teensie weensie prollem..the LARGE space between Idaho and Pennsylvania.. for NOW I guess I will just have to COWBOY UP.. I do have an ohlins rear shock and race tech shock springs.. I might try addin some preload to my rear shock.. I guess when those Russian boys designed the Dnepr and ural hacks they didn't have aerodynamics in mind.mostof my ridin has been around town.. looks like I need more hwy time[/QUOTE]
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claude screwed with this post 04-13-2014 at 09:54 AM
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:43 AM   #6
Wolfgang55
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Jimm Dandy, can you post up any photos of your rig ?

Something about a thousands words & one snap shot…..
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:59 AM   #7
mikejjmay
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I have a wee rig with a hitchhiker car. Yep, when i first started riding hacks, it felt like it would "get light" at times. Once you get used to it, that feeling will go away. Until you do, you can always ride with a little ballast, removing it in increments as your experience grows. Also, practice getting to that point and just getting the sidecar wheel a little off the ground, it will help you realize where that point truly is and have a good reference.

I just rode the wee rig 900 miles, avg speed on 70 mph, with no issues, and Im pretty sure my tub is lighter than yours, so you should be fine just a matter of time and practice.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:35 AM   #8
leejosepho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
...I think if you practice with what you have and find the limits you will soon not be so concerned with what you are feeling at this time.
Along with some experimentation, that is my own experience. Gusts of wind from the side were leaning my rig a bit extra and puckering my cheeks near the centerline at highway speed, but increasing the preload of the sidecar suspension brought the chair up just a bit and removed some of the wind's ability to that so easily. Or in place of a swaybar, you might look for a way to add a flexible strap of some kind that will limit the sidecar wheel's ability to go down too far so the wind will have more to lift whenever it tries. Overall, however, and with my own sidecar being heavy even without ballast, I have grown accustomed to occasionally just reminding myself that no wind or bump has ever yet launched me up onto two wheels.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:22 AM   #9
Jimm Dandy OP
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Thanks fellars

Claude.. the subframe came from DMC..a friend of mine who has had a few hack rigs himself and is also an accomplished welder did the install. as a newb to hacks and bein OLD I cant remember all the stats but I do feel as tho it was setup correctly.. also I spoke to both you and Jay about width toe in etc. while it was being setup.. for the most part I like the way it handles.. doesn't pull either way on the flat seems to corner well.. I do also have a two and a half gallon gas can filled with sand mounted to the right rear of the hack.. I did this because 90% of the time my dog rides in the hack so I don't wanna freak her out by the sidecar lifting.. I enjoy riding it a lot but the other day it was WINDY and with the configuration of the Russian hack nose allowing the air to get underneath plus a headwind and somewhat of a crosswind at 60 mph I just had a few un nerving moments.. guess I am getting OLD.. thanks again fellars.. I just gotta get a lil tougher I guesss.until I can figure out how and when to get to Pennsylvania to get a swaybar
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:39 AM   #10
Bobmws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
I just gotta get a lil tougher I guesss.until I can figure out how and when to get to Pennsylvania to get a swaybar
Last I looked there are roads running East & West!!!!
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:33 AM   #11
RedMenace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
Claude.. the subframe came from DMC..a friend of mine who has had a few hack rigs himself and is also an accomplished welder did the install. as a newb to hacks and bein OLD I cant remember all the stats but I do feel as tho it was setup correctly.. also I spoke to both you and Jay about width toe in etc. while it was being setup.. for the most part I like the way it handles.. doesn't pull either way on the flat seems to corner well.. I do also have a two and a half gallon gas can filled with sand mounted to the right rear of the hack.. I did this because 90% of the time my dog rides in the hack so I don't wanna freak her out by the sidecar lifting.. I enjoy riding it a lot but the other day it was WINDY and with the configuration of the Russian hack nose allowing the air to get underneath plus a headwind and somewhat of a crosswind at 60 mph I just had a few un nerving moments.. guess I am getting OLD.. thanks again fellars.. I just gotta get a lil tougher I guesss.until I can figure out how and when to get to Pennsylvania to get a swaybar
I really doubt you are experiencing lift with the ballast you are hauling in what is already a pretty heavy sidecar. If you want to try an airdam the easiest way would be to simply install the Ural windshield on the hack.

If the old Hal Kendal trick of standing on the outside peg and trying to yank it off the ground with the hand grip doesn't reveal an unstable rig and if it usually feels planted cornering, I'd bet you are just worrying a bit; understandable- these things can feel quirky and crosswinds are weird and no fun. Do stiffen up your bike's suspension.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:03 PM   #12
ag_streak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
i installed a ural hack on my dl1000.. the only thing i really dont like is the sensation i get at about 60 mph.. the air under the tub starts to feel like its tryin to lift it.. I THINK I know its never gonna be able to lift it but just the sensation is unnerving to me.. has anyone else felt like this and i wonder if i could do some sort of an air dam to create a down draft??
I run a Sportster rig with suspension travel at the other end of the spectrum from yours, but I think I know exactly what you're talking about!

I can cruise flat and stable at 75 or 80 mph on a straightaway with no drama, but once in a while, when I've been riding my other bikes more than my rig, or haven't ridden the rig in a while, I get the odd feeling the car is getting light and is about to lift, in a moderate-speed right hander when it's windy or gusty.

I think this is due partly to the car getting a tiny bit lighter than you expected under the conditions, and partly psychological.

When I haven't ridden the rig in a while or I'm just not in tune, I may not be paying strict attention for a few seconds, and probably not shifting my weight to the right like I normally would. Suddenly, the CG of the rig is a bit off to the left, and it feels unstable.

I immediately snap back into paying attention to the feedback the chassis is providing, consciously weighting the right peg and moving my upper body to the right, and the feeling that the car is going to unexpectedly lift goes away, even in the next right-hander a few minutes later. My head just wasn't in the game for a minute, but once it is, I feel in control again.

Does this make sense? I hope it helps!
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Old 04-16-2014, 05:20 PM   #13
Jimm Dandy OP
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THANKS everyone.. you guys ROCK..plus you answered my question..I AM a wuss
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:27 PM   #14
Wolfgang55
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THANKS everyone.. you guys ROCK..plus you answered my question..I AM a wuss
I'd rather be a living ''wuss'' & still able to learn, than a dead expert.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:43 PM   #15
claude
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Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
THANKS everyone.. you guys ROCK..plus you answered my question..I AM a wuss
No you are not a wuss. You just need to gain some experience. Things that seem scary to you now may not later on. It all comes with practice either ron or off the road. In time your outfit, if setup well, will begin to 'talk to you' in a language that you will understand more.
It is better to gain experience safely than to be crazy out there.
If you just practice in a safe area a little at a time things will seem easier. One can never increase their skill envelope unless they are willing to take the time to slowly practice a little at a time above their comfort zone. It takes some time and effort but the results will be in your favor all around.
Wuss? No.
Taking a class is not a bad thing at all but you still need to practice to get to know your outfit and your limitations. Any given outfit will have it's own imitations of course. But, it is your own limits that can be expanded with practice. This is true for us all no matter how long we have been on these things.
Make sense?
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