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Old 05-18-2015, 08:07 PM   #1
FLYING EYEBALL OP
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Hannibal Classic brake grab/pull

New to me hd Hannigan rig. Only 1000 miles on bike...they have been together awhile.

Sidecar brake is tied into bike rear. Rig does a hard right when I get on the rear brake.

Sc rotor spins freely.

Any ideas?

Is there an adjustment? Bleed?
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:07 PM   #2
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:25 PM   #3
Carl Childers
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I'd be curious as to how the calipers compare to one another, does the Hannigan have more swept area or more pistons than the Harley rear wheel caliper in the same circuit? If so it could be part of the problem. Next thing I'd check would be the possibility of a piston hanging up in the SC caliper.

Harley uses DOT 5 brake fluid in their systems, is it possible some one introduced DOT 3 or 4 into it? I've seen that before and it does cause problems.
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:53 PM   #4
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Not sure, but I would think the caliper pistons should be the same size so that both bike and sidecar pistons would respond the same way to the line pressure
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:19 PM   #5
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Maybe take a look at the rear brake. If the caliper is jammed up or has a seized piston, or if the line needs to be bled, could be when you hit that pedal the ONLY brake that gets activated is the SC.

That'd spin you around!
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:41 PM   #6
Crilly
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Use more front, less rear. My Indian rig does the same thing. No brake it well pull to the left. Weight in sidecar we'll make a deference. Get used to it. Any time you change weight on a rig it is going to handle different. (Ie. Sidecar weight, passenger behind you weight)
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:47 PM   #7
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This isn't the little right left throttle brake thing...this is very hard pull to the right. I guess I could just pull the quick disconnect apart and see if the bike brake will function normally.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:12 PM   #8
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This is not uncommon. You can add a proportioning valve if you wish. Go to speedway motors or summit racing. However using both brakes is thee best policy. You can practice steering using front brake to set u into a lftie and the rear to enter a right turn. It takes some practice but works good. For just braking use both brakes and do it always so it is automatic in a panic situation!! NOTE: All rigs can be a little different as far as sidecar brakes go so practice is imperitve!!

If you have the quick disconnect you may wish to run it with no sidecar brake for a while. It will then pull to the left when braking but will be consistant !

PRACTICE :-)
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:48 PM   #9
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I was just saying to disconnect to isolate the issue to the sc brake. It's a big rig and I'm a big guy and can use all the brakes I can get. Right now it's as very harsh (scary) pull.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYING EYEBALL View Post
I was just saying to disconnect to isolate the issue to the sc brake. It's a big rig and I'm a big guy and can use all the brakes I can get. Right now it's as very harsh (scary) pull.
It's worth trying, Josh.

The Gus Bus has the same brakes as yours. That 4 pot rear is prone to locking until you get the feel of the pedal.

When I first got it, mine had the interesting habit of occasionally letting the pedal go clear to the board, without rhyme or reason. Several good bleeding sessions took care of that. My preference was for factory pads.

Your RK still uses DOT 5. It wasn't till several years later that the MoCo went to DOT 4. Don't mix them, as the seals won't thank you.


*edit; while I think of it. The bleed nipple is 3/8th, and the rest of the hardware is metric. 10 mm 12 point, and 8 mm for the pad retaining pins on the caliper.



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Old 05-19-2015, 05:26 AM   #11
Bobmws
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My rear brake reacts the same way, sidecar wheel will lock up first, bike rear is ABS. Mostly a matter of learning to adjust your rear braking method/pressure to achieve a balance, and use the fronts in conjunction.
I would definitely investigate both brakes to make sure they are working properly, disconnecting the sidecar line will help with that.
Like Claude said, practice!
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norton(kel) View Post
Not sure, but I would think the caliper pistons should be the same size so that both bike and sidecar pistons would respond the same way to the line pressure
You would think so but as good as Hannigan is maybe it was over looked by them or the sidecar was made specifically for another bike besides the Harley or Hannigan does a one size fits all brake for every model of motorcycle. If it is the case it would be like having a dual disc front end with a 2 pot on the left and a four pot on the right, it'll be out of balance . Claudes mention of a proportioning valve that is adjustable is a good one when after a close inspection of what you have proves to be balanced and functioning properly. That fact that the rig has so few miles for it's age says it sat a long time and would make me want to tear the sidecar caliper down for a look. As an example older Brembo's on euro bikes did not do well with long periods of inactivity and were prone to seizing or sticking due to rust especially in damper climates.

I think with a little bit of detective work and engineering the brake system on the rig can be dialed in to work to it's best capabilities.
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:02 AM   #13
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My Harley sidecar with drum brake will pull hard to the right when I only use the rear brake. You should probably experiment using both front and rear brakes at the same time. The Harley sidecar manuals recommend using both front and rear brakes simultaneously. It does make a big difference on my rig. It stops pretty straight when I use both brakes.

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Old 05-19-2015, 09:18 PM   #14
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I think from what we have seen posted here does state ,like I said, this is not uncommon.

Yes,proportioning valves are an option.

Read ANY discussion about sidecar brakes and the posts will be be all over the map!

We do A LOT of Hannigan sidecars and their brakes work well.

Any sidecar brake DOES have the potential of being inconsistent. That can be an issue unless one dedicates themselves to practicing under any and all conditions. This is essential!

Also practice with the sidecar loaded and unloaded. That can make a difference.

Practice on a wet road. Sidecar brakes can lock the sidecar wheel at times and that can be another inconsistency that can jump out at anyone who has not practiced diligently.

Some of us are not huge fans of sidecar brakes due to this and some are. So be it.

Have seen posts that said things like " I hit the brakes and the rig went right or left etc etc......why? Not enough practice under varied conditions. One post a person without brakes said he braked hard and went across the center line and off the road on the other side. why? Lack of practice and running out of their skill envelope into no mans land,,,froze at the helm. There is more to avoiding a target than just brakes ,,,,handlebars and even throttle can come into play. Practice!!

Another thing that was said once was that the rig had two pedals side by side. The poster sai dit wa s good to have it but he neve ruse dit but could in an emergency. hello? When the reaper jumps out of you you do what your reactions come up with. Taking the time to think will kill reaction time and can kill more than that.

Practice using both brakes! Why not??

Nobody will ever develop sidecar skills of any kind nor advance their skill envelope unless they practice. Practicing a little above one's comfort zone in a gradual safe fashion is the ONLY way to elevate skill levels. Even if a person is a conservative rider no one told that deer that it cannot jump out in front of them when you are at speed.

Actions can be planned but reactions can only come from practice! Good reactions are what saves lives and they only come from practice.

Hope this did not sound harsh but it is important.
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Old 05-19-2015, 09:52 PM   #15
norton(kel)
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Practice-Practice-Practice-

As Claude has posted more than once on more than one thread, Practice is the key. I have bikes with right side rear brake pedals and bikes with left side rear break pedals and sidecars with and without brakes. Every time I leave the shop I have to think and be aware of what configuration of controls the bike I'm riding has and if the car has a brake or not. Thank goodness i"m on a dead end dirt road so I have a little time to practice before I get to the highway. Practice-Practice-Practice.

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