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Old 04-17-2015, 04:49 PM   #1
ohgood OP
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kdx220 will not idle - brainstorm time

maybe one of your gurus can clue me in...

1997 kdx 220
fresh top end ( piston, rings )
fresh crank bearings/ seals
freshly cleaned carb (354th time it's been cleaned now)
jet combinations I've tried:
142, 140, 137, 135 main with 42, 40, 38, 35 idler with needle clip in 1,2,3(middle),4,5 positions (this is the ONLY thing that changes the running conditions, and middle is best, everything else = shit)
float level set to stock (17mm from bowl seam), up 2mm (no change) down 2mm (floods out overflow)
clean air filter
fresh plug
fresh fuel mixes (about 5 times now)
fresh inline fuel filter
cleaned every single passage on the carb with cleaner + wires + compressed air
checked choke plunger, it is sealing
pressure tested crank seals, to almost 15psi, no leaks/bubbles/etc
compression test = 150psi in 3-4 kicks
reeds are ... ok, not perfect, but .001" feeler gauge just slides under the petals. i ordered a new cage + petals, but got the wrong one.. so i'm testing with old shit. yes, i know but nothing has worked so far.


symptoms:
idle screw does nothing full in = no change, full out = no change
air screw does nothing full in = no change, full out = no change


idles extremely slow, smells rich (for a two stroke!), splooge
1/8 throttle response is shit, babababbrabRRaaaa and then it's time to shift
nothing is linear about the throttle response. it's just shit, either acclerating (ok, but not like it should) or complete shit sputter/cough/bog as soon as throttle is closed



previously the bike ran strong, everywhere. pulled from stall speed all the way up to "SHIFT NOW OR DIE". but then the crankcase seals failed, and it started running like shit. EXACTLY like it runs today, even after all the work.


oh , and the worst part : i tagged this bike. so now i have a street legal kdx, thats about as much fun to ride as an dead horse.



tell me i've missed something. please.
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:28 PM   #2
anotherguy
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When you say cleaned the carb does that mean disassemble completely and soak in caustic carb cleaner?

Have you replaced the float needle/seat? I like to remove the float bowl,turn on the fuel tap and see how well it flows and seals by moving the float up and down by hand. Paying particular attention to where and how much pressure it takes to seal. Reeds should be OK as long as they're not frayed or split.

And this doesn't have to be a carb problem. Check through the electrical system. Coil resistance,ignitor resistance and stator/rotor condition specs. Don't be blinded by "thinking" it's this or that. Pain in the ass as it is diagnose all systems. I say this because you've no changes through a very wide range of fuel settings.
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:03 PM   #3
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Why did the crankcase seals fail? And did both fail or just one?

Ignitions on those have been known to have problems (stators mostly).

Take the shop towel out of the air filter intake.

Have you called Jeff Fredette? (708) 946-0999

http://www.frpoffroad.com/index.htm
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:27 PM   #4
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On the basis that 95% of carburetion problems are electrical, check out your entire ignition system.
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post

When you say cleaned the carb does that mean disassemble completely and soak in caustic carb cleaner?

Have you replaced the float needle/seat? I like to remove the float bowl,turn on the fuel tap and see how well it flows and seals by moving the float up and down by hand. Paying particular attention to where and how much pressure it takes to seal. Reeds should be OK as long as they're not frayed or split.

And this doesn't have to be a carb problem. Check through the electrical system. Coil resistance,ignitor resistance and stator/rotor condition specs. Don't be blinded by "thinking" it's this or that. Pain in the ass as it is diagnose all systems. I say this because you've no changes through a very wide range of fuel settings.


Yes, completely disassembled, soaked overnight in pinesol, blown out with carb cleaner, air, wires run through the passages.


the float needle is pointy and looks great under my 10x handheld microscope. the seat is not replaceable, or at least not easily, since it's riveted in place by the carb body pressed against it in three places. [/I]

ok, i'll do that this morning.




Quote:
Originally Posted by wfopete View Post

Why did the crankcase seals fail? And did both fail or just one?

Ignitions on those have been known to have problems (stators mostly).

Take the shop towel out of the air filter intake.

Have you called Jeff Fredette? (708) 946-0999


http://www.frpoffroad.com/index.htm
why, i don't know. they appeared to be brittle, and the bike is 18 years old, so i can only guess age. from a short inspection (i didn't pressure test it before pulling it apart) it had carbon leaking out from around the transmission / crank seal. the stator seal appeared to not be leaking.

ok, this one makes sense. the previous poster said something similar. since the carb doesn't change anything...


man i wish !


i googled him... sounds like he's the man. i will monday. weekend call that don't pay are something i don't want to do to someone else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJay View Post
On the basis that 95% of carburetion problems are electrical, check out your entire ignition system.
that's three out of three advising to check the ignition. ok, this morning i'll do that. thank you, all of you.
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ohgood screwed with this post 04-18-2015 at 03:39 AM
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:30 PM   #6
ohgood OP
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two more hours wasted on the piece of shit.

40V AC at the lighting circuit, and

7.36 Ohms ( i guess, i'm not an electrician) on the Yellow to Black wire (from stator)

and

7.19 Ohms (i guess) on the White/Red to Black wire from stator.


The bike started fine the first time (like always) but then got progressively shittier and shittier until it took 10-15 kicks to get it to start again. Tried to ride around the neighborhood to watch the voltages, but it runs so completely shit right now that's not really possible.

The LED head/tail lights are working fine, but the bike runs so shitty it's pointless to try and get over 10 MPH with it to test jetting/whatever.

Any more suggestions ?
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:58 PM   #7
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What's the coil primary resistance? Progressive deterioration with heat points to electrical issues. Instead of riding the bike to heat things up gently use a heat gun. If you have access to a infrared temp gun it'll help with consistency.

Relax we'll sort it out.
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Old 04-18-2015, 05:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
What's the coil primary resistance? Progressive deterioration with heat points to electrical issues. Instead of riding the bike to heat things up gently use a heat gun. If you have access to a infrared temp gun it'll help with consistency.

Relax we'll sort it out.
i have no idea what that means. can you out out in simple terms?
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:33 PM   #9
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Sure. Since it starts well and deteriorates as it warms up it points at something electrical failing. You do not have to ride the bike to check the numbers hot. You can use a heat gun or even a blow dryer to heat the items you wish to check. An infrared heat sensor will help you with temperature control to avoid overheating.

The ignition coil has two sides. 1.)Primary-where the voltage comes into the coil.2.)Secondary-where it goes out,i.e. the spark plug lead. They each have a resistance range where they're considered good. Too little/too much and they're bad. As far as numbers you'll need a service manual for that. I do not know off the top of my head. A multimeter is used to verify these specs.

The CDI (black box) could be going south as well. Diagnosing that can drive you bug fucking crazy too. We should start with the coil first.

Better?

Look here for setting the meter up for that.
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:22 AM   #10
ohgood OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
Sure. Since it starts well and deteriorates as it warms up it points at something electrical failing. You do not have to ride the bike to check the numbers hot. You can use a heat gun or even a blow dryer to heat the items you wish to check. An infrared heat sensor will help you with temperature control to avoid overheating.

The ignition coil has two sides. 1.)Primary-where the voltage comes into the coil.2.)Secondary-where it goes out,i.e. the spark plug lead. They each have a resistance range where they're considered good. Too little/too much and they're bad. As far as numbers you'll need a service manual for that. I do not know off the top of my head. A multimeter is used to verify these specs.

The CDI (black box) could be going south as well. Diagnosing that can drive you bug fucking crazy too. We should start with the coil first.

Better?

Look here for setting the meter up for that.
thank you, I'll try that today
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:15 AM   #11
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Man you're an early riser.
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:19 AM   #12
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i don't sleep much anymore.


this morning stator test, whatever the members mean, i don't know:



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Old 04-19-2015, 10:11 AM   #13
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Do you have a service manual? Without the proper specs we not going to make progress.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:59 AM   #14
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Do you have a service manual? Without the proper specs we not going to make progress.
i have the pdf on my phone yes, but like i said, know nothing about electronics
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:56 AM   #15
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Well it should tell you to check (for example) between red and white wires. First for continuity,second for resistance. And give a range of results that are acceptable. What does it say about inspection of the stator? I don't have a manual so I can only help with what you find if you give me the results and specs from the manual.
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