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Old 02-19-2009, 11:03 PM   #301
SimpleSimon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakarBlues
folks,

I rode today 60 miles in a 27-28 deg. F. wind chill.
I was wearing BMW Santiago boots with heavy Smartwool REI mountain hiking socks.
At the end of the ride I had cold feet, is that to be expected with heated liners/gloves?
I have heard so much praise from the Santiago boots and this is not what I was looking forward to.
It's my first real ride with my new Synergy electric jacket liner with Firstgear carbon gloves,
Maybe it's just my upper body being toasty make me more aware of my feet in the chilly wind,

Anything that can help remediate this situation, I am about to go on a 400 miles trip next week
and wouldn't want to get cold feet all the way there.

Thx
Go slip some boot warmers in your boots. I think your feet are going to be cold. Otherwise, find some 9v electric socks.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:31 PM   #302
heat-troller_mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakarBlues
folks,

I rode today 60 miles in a 27-28 deg. F. wind chill.
I was wearing BMW Santiago boots with heavy Smartwool REI mountain hiking socks.
At the end of the ride I had cold feet, is that to be expected with heated liners/gloves?
I have heard so much praise from the Santiago boots and this is not what I was looking forward to.
It's my first real ride with my new Synergy electric jacket liner with Firstgear carbon gloves,
Maybe it's just my upper body being toasty make me more aware of my feet in the chilly wind,

Anything that can help remediate this situation, I am about to go on a 400 miles trip next week
and wouldn't want to get cold feet all the way there.

Thx
our new heated socks will be ready in about 3 weeks.

mike warmnsafe.com
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:59 AM   #303
Crusty
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Mike; You just made my wife's day! Oh, she really likes her gloves>
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:28 PM   #304
K7MDL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaximum
Sorry for the quality of these photos. I only have an older camera on hand.






I hope this helps.
The two diagrams above are different for a vest. The sleeved jacket it may be correct though, I do not know. The heated collar vest I have (new last week) has one heating element of 2.6 ohms that I can measure. I would bet the sleeves are additional parallel elements of slightly higher resistance and possible show up on the controller wired separately, but it would be worth double checking that.

I measured my vest out tonight and drew the same results at first. But I noticed that my vest had the 2 pins connected to heater elements shown shorted at the controller connector (vest side). This would be redrawn as a single resistor in both diagrams and the pins woudl be doubled up, just like the ground pins. The doubled up heater and ground pins are likely doubled up to increase the max current carrying capacity. One pin may not be enough. 2 pins, twice the safe current handling in the connector.

I had done this analysis and posted to another thread, but thought it made sense to come back to this thread and post my findings to keep things in one place. So please pardon the cut and paste and redundancy if it reads funny at times.

I also had a small revelation about alternatives methods to wire in-line controllers that may be simpler than the methods I have seen attempted so far. Read to the bottom for that.

_______ cut and paste __________

I wanted to do the same thing and leverage the battery tender connectors on both my bikes. Here is my analysis after reading some posts and measuring it out myself tonight.

For the vest there is one red power plug and one black pants socket and a controller. The center pins are tied together and is + (positive). The outer pins are not tied together though. The red outer shell is (-) however. The black plug is wired on parallel with the vest heater element, so the outer shell is not tied to ground.

More details and ideas:

I ordered the Tour Master SAE to Coax adapter, and when I received it, realized it was not going to work. It is a SAE to coax plug, not SAE to coax jack. I thought I might be able to use it still and connect to the black plug, thinking it might be in parallel with the red power plug. Not so. Plus the polarity of the SAE plug would be reversed. This might cause bad things to happen i the controller.

Eastern Beaver has a proper SAE to coax jack connector to extend bike power to the jacket in the right polarity. It is very short. They do have 2 and 3 foot SAE extension cables with waterproof cap. I ordered both tonight.

The black socket connector is used to connect to pants and is wired in parallel with the vest heater. The + is common to the controller and both red and black connector center pins. The (- side) of the heaters (Pants and vest) are tied together inside the vest and go to the controller and to the black connector outer shell so that both the vest and pants heater elements (2.6 ohms each) are in parallel, both controlled by the single vest controller.

The controller is a pulse type and periodically connects the heater(s) minus side (-) to power ground (only available on the red plug outer shell) to allow current to flow and produce heat. The controller changes the length of time of each pulse to produce more or less heat.

I went through this carefully to answer a question of my own. Can you connect power directly to the black plug at all?

2 possible answers:
1. No, if you use supplied vest standard controller. The only way to supply ground properly is via the red plug. The black outer shell is the heater minus side, not ground. The controller completes the path to ground.
2. Yes, if you use an inline controller and disconnect the vest standard controller (no jumpering required). This is because the pants plug is directly in parallel with the heater elements.

Answer #2 is a revelation of sorts to those wanting to use inline controllers (existing heatrollers) and are cutting standard dead controller wires and jumpering. It may be less work to just disconnect the controller, stuff the cable into the vest, and create a cable extension with a red plug to red plug. In my case it is easier, I use the battery tender SAE plug for power so have an SAE to Coax adapter. The stock Synergy SAE to coax plug adapter will reverse the polarity, but the vest heater does not care and is fully insulated (not grounded).

- Mike
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:21 AM   #305
duck
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After only 4 (long) days of riding, my Synergy jacket's contoller cable tore out of jacket. I was using the leg strap and it tore the fabric around the grommet where the cable comes out.

The same thing happened to another member of the K1100 forum so I know it's not just me.

I sent it back to Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse in mid-January after getting a return authorization from them. Never heard back so I emailed the in mid-February - never heard back. Finally called them late last week and they are finally sending a replacement.

The attachment of the cable to the jacket is a weakpoint I think. My previous heated gear was an Aerostich vest that had a 2" square SEA connector sewn to the jacket which was much more sturdy.

I was OK with a heated vest but it's nice to have the heated sleeves.

Bottom line: I'm happy with the jacket but be careful not to pull too hard on the cable. When I get my replacement I'm going to maybe rig up some paracord or something to the left pocket zipper pull to give it some more support.

Bottom line #2: IF you send MAW a warranty return you should dog them on the phone to get them into action.
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:23 AM   #306
Dusty Boots
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A little late but might help you/others anyways

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakarBlues
Where is it possible to find a coiles extension cord to extend the reach of the power lead?
So as to be able to stand up or change position on the bike without disconnecting the liner.
You can get a 6' coiled extension cord here for $17.95, including free shipping. Good people and good service!

http://www.cyclemaxohio.com/inc/sdetail/11115

Dusty
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:10 PM   #307
Navamo1
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navamo1
New controller arrived and it lasted two blocks this morning and died!!!!

I emailed the vendor and I'm sending the jacket and pants back for repair? I assume it will be fixed, we'll see. I've gone through four (4) controller and now it appears it the jacket or pants? Both are going back, I'll let you know what it's going to cost me. May be I won't get screwed with extra costs??????? so far it only shipping..........
Okay just got back a new set of pants and jacket, and it cost me only shipping back to supplier. They didn't question anything, since there was a email trail. So, now I got a new set, we'll see how they last. The good thing is today it was 89 Degrees here in Amarillo, but the mornings are in the upper 40's. So, maybe I won't be testing these things out very soon? I was just please they sent me a new set, maybe this is a new generation? We'll see. The supplier informed me they where out of this gear, so there was a delay... only a month and a half....
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:04 AM   #308
Charleetho
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Another Failed Controller

I just got back from a 5 day trip and my second controller failed on day one. This really sucked because I did run into some cold weather and with all my other layers on I was still chilled.

I am sure they will send me another controller and all will be well.. for a while. I need reliablity while on a trip. When you count on the electric gear to be the main layer in our battle to keep from hypothermia, it's gotta work.

I will be either ordering a gerbing or warm-n-safe soon. The tour master synergy jacket will become a back up for the occasional passenger.
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:44 PM   #309
DakarBlues
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torn attachment at gromet

Quote:
Originally Posted by duck
After only 4 (long) days of riding, my Synergy jacket's contoller cable tore out of jacket. I was using the leg strap and it tore the fabric around the grommet where the cable comes out.

The same thing happened to another member of the K1100 forum so I know it's not just me.

I sent it back to Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse in mid-January after getting a return authorization from them. Never heard back so I emailed the in mid-February - never heard back. Finally called them late last week and they are finally sending a replacement.

The attachment of the cable to the jacket is a weakpoint I think. My previous heated gear was an Aerostich vest that had a 2" square SEA connector sewn to the jacket which was much more sturdy.

I was OK with a heated vest but it's nice to have the heated sleeves.

Bottom line: I'm happy with the jacket but be careful not to pull too hard on the cable. When I get my replacement I'm going to maybe rig up some paracord or something to the left pocket zipper pull to give it some more support.

Bottom line #2: IF you send MAW a warranty return you should dog them on the phone to get them into action.

Thx Duck, right after reading your notice I verified and indeed found that mine also was ripped.
i'll try to get an RMA to have it returned.
Otherwise it's a great piece of gear.

THx
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:36 PM   #310
travstoll
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Hopefully I am not out of line by posting this question in here, but from you guys and girls that have used both, what is the difference between the jacket and the vest, I am trying to make my decision on which one to buy and can't decide which would be better suited for me. Thanks.
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:36 AM   #311
XPLORZ
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Against my better judgement, I bought a Tourmaster Synergy heated jacket liner for an up-coming trip. OK, maybe not the most brilliant move, but I did get First Gear/Warm and Safe jacket and pant liner for the spousal unit. Not gonna risk an equipment failure with her. If she's cold and miserable.......

Anyways, I ended up with a spare First Gear heat troller. I plan to take it along as a spare to the Synergy controller for my jacket. First, out of curiousity, I dis-assembled the Synergy controller.

Front of the board:


Back of the board:


Looks like a PWM!

Then I got out the DVM and tested this plug on the jacket to see whats what:


This diagram shows what I found. It also shows how I plan on jumping it so I could use the inline First Gear heat troller.


I dug around until I found some spade terminals that were rounded and would slide over the pin pairs. Some terminals are almost flat and will not work. Here is the jumper:


Notice that when the jumper is plugged in, the pin with straight through to the + side is NOT used:


With the jumper in place, I went direct through with NO controller of any kind to a 12v battery. I was testing to see how many amps it would pull. It buried my ammeter! So I removed the jumper and installed the Synergy controller. It pulled 6.3 amps in high, about 5.3 amps med and 4.3 amps on low. I put the jumper back on and put the First Gear heat troller in line. It pulled the same 6.3 amps on high, but it would go even lower on its variable heat settings.

So with the jumper in place I will be able to use the First Gear inline heat troller (plugs are the same) as a backup.

a word of warning:
DO NOT PLUG DIRECTLY IN TO YOUR MOTORCYCLE WITH THE JUMPER IN PLACE AND NO HEAT TROLLER IN LINE. On the test, it pegged the needle on my ammeter!
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:55 PM   #312
Reposado1800
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I checked my jacket liner and it too pulled the grommet out. It still works good though.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:19 AM   #313
The Lazy Destroyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jud
Had a bad deally with my Tourmaster heated gear while on a trip. Wasn't the gear's fault though. Seems the controllers are very sensetive to over charging. Popped two different controllers, our only two controllers before we figured it out. Ummm,,,,, it was cold too.


Well I was the culprit that killed x2 controllers, both pretty much immediately.

Here is the strange part... I have my own Tourmaster heated gloves and borrowed Judd's vest. The gloves worked fine on their own. I integrated the gloves using their supplied "extension" leads from the vest (where the controller area is) to the gloves. When I tried using it, heat for a split second then nothing. Controller would not turn on, and no heat.

Did this with Judd's second controller, same deal. Killed both of them. They now won't work on Judd's bike either.

I go back to plugging my gloves in by themselves, with the glove's controller, and it worked fine.

???

Seems like my bike killed two of Judd's controllers, but the one that came with my gloves has worked perfectly fine before and after.

Any thoughts?

I'm ordering a Tourmaster liner today and obviously I am a bit worried that I will kill the controller on it.

I ran my bike for a week with a voltmeter on it. ~12.8-13.1v at idle and highest I saw was 14.5 - 14.7v while running down the road. Seems normal to me?

Is there something else to look at, possibly bad battery causing issues? It's not terribly old, maybe 1.5 years old but has 30k miles and has been killed a couple times.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:52 AM   #314
Rashnak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck
After only 4 (long) days of riding, my Synergy jacket's contoller cable tore out of jacket. I was using the leg strap and it tore the fabric around the grommet where the cable comes out.
This happened to me as well... twice. It is a weak point. I used binder clips to secure the wire to the jacket and reinforce, the cheap cure works for me.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:26 PM   #315
The Lazy Destroyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lazy Destroyer
I'm ordering a Tourmaster liner today and obviously I am a bit worried that I will kill the controller on it.
Well I ended up getting a jacket liner but also got a First Gear Heat Troller as a backup controller. I got a jumper wired for the 4 pins on the 5-pin connector as described in a few posts up. We'll see how this works out for me when I hit up the NW next week. Bringing the heated gear just in case it gets a bit chilly on the passes.
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